[QUOTE=sanjuro_ronin;846164]Dude, quit yelling.
Just search for Emin on youtube.
:D[/QUOTE]
I’m not yelling…i have a voice disorder, one in two billion people are afflicted with this disorder which makes you think out loud… you ********. I didn’t say that i was muttering under my breath, *****. I didn’t say that either.
LOL, you see that saturday night live skit?.sihing thanks for editing the humour in my post.cheers
[QUOTE=diego;845944]dragon back, sink chest hunch shoulders outsretched claws…famous in dragon form, wrestlers do it as an on gaurd posture.
Got the name from Park Bok Nam’s Bagua book.[/QUOTE]
I would just like to respond to this I rarely post on here because there is way to much political BS on here. To the point the way we train in my school is precisely what you would call dragon back. The back is rounded, the chest is sunken, the stomach is relaxed and released, the shoulders are also sunk. All movements are initiated from the legs then hips then abdominal then upper body but when reaching the upper body rather then raising and activating the shoulders we sink them using the lats solidifying in a instance then relaxing. Not that you have said anything about power in this quote but to everyone that thinks there is no ppower in wing chun punches, those who throw their puches in this manner know otherwise. Peace =) I would also just like to add that this all sounds complicated maybe but it is not it is just broke down. Once practiced and trained it happens just as fast or faster as a jab in boxing.
[QUOTE=diego;846043]
I’ve been doing the method of Hop Ga I do for ten years I’m aware of the basics..You guys do sun fist and uppercut in your forms…we got those and swing punches…we got tornado kicks…it’s a better work out than the three wing chun forms. The Wing Chun frame is something special imo…I have no idea what offends you besides bullshido made a couple funny videos. I made the thread trying to prove them wrong, and I did.
[/QUOTE]
How you apply the techniques against opponents determines awareness of the basics.
The WC punches in the air are similar to lots of other styles. That doesn’t make a Hop Gar person aware of any WC basics at all.
Without any experience in the actual art and a lot of shallow stereotypes of what it entails, you aren’t in a position to argue the good and bad points of WC. You’ve talked about subtlety in WC that you obviously haven’t even learnt.
If you have genuine interest in WC but you’re conflicted, the first thing you should do is clear up all the misconceptions you have! Then maybe you can argue about what you like and don’t like.
Alchemy
"Hello Victor, I just wanted to add again in case some of the other WC/VT vets read this…I love the style, it’s what got me into chinese martial arts…I hate the popular kung fu media, it saddens me that the commies and hollywood business men killed all the masters…then I see Bullshido videos, I thought I’d drop my analysis on the state of Wing Chun/Ving Tsun…from a fans point of view.
The Hop Ga I do has way more technique than wing chun…but the pinpoint closed stance flavor is something special in the martial art world..I feel it is assassin level martial art, not for the masses.
The masses are the reason those bullshido videos are there." (diego)
***I HAPPEN TO AGREE with almost all of what you say (although the actual extent of wing chun concepts, techniques, and strategies may surprise you)…but nonetheless you’re on point, imo, diego.
It is an “assassin” level martial art from close quarters - but too few wing chun people can make it so. And yes, imo, your suggestion that understanding (doing) other longer range styles (and I would add wrestling/grappling in there as well)…does make for a clearer understanding of just how effective wing chun can be - from standing close quarters.
It can be devastating at that range.
Truly a paradox is this art, imo. It does seem to suck in the hands of the “masses” - for a multitude of reasons. But at the other end of the spectrum a really good wing chun fighter is a dangerous man.
Kind of like making Gold in the middle ages: 99% charlatan…1% GENIUS.
Doesn’t sound like enough return on the investment - does it?
[QUOTE=Ultimatewingchun;846232]
Doesn’t sound like enough return on the investment - does it?[/QUOTE]
Hmm…
All in all, I’d say it is!
I’m not the best at WC, nor do I preach that I can do it well…but I think I can teach what I’ve been taught well and integrate. Living out here in the “country” doesn’t allow for many people to be taught…but here and there I find the keeners. I guess that’s all I want to train with, the people who go home, think about it, actually practice it and come back to work on something the next session. Most often, the keeners aren’t students but become “training partners.”
It can be frustrating from an instructor’s POV, but maybe it’s just personal. When I started in martial arts 14 years ago, I was gung-ho all the way. I practiced and practiced and practiced everything I was given. That never changed. What really grinded my gears was when my seniors wouldn’t and then things wouldn’t be reviewed because it wasn’t what they were working on.
So, when I want to teach someone my limited WC knowledge or even exchange some ideas…I want the fanatic. …that 1 of completely saturated martial art madness!!! Then I feel better about the whole thing.
Best,
Kenton
The 99 vs 1% example is true in all aspects of life. But why does everyone have to be in the top 1% to be a successful human being? IMO the thing is not to be at the extreme side of a sliding ruler, but rather somewhere in the middle is fine. The best fighters, best scientist, best athletes, best business person, best politician, best whatever, are on the extreme end of the scale, the same goes for the worst fighter, worst scientist, worst athlete, worst business person, etc. Living on the extreme in any endeavour is not healthy as there is no balance in life when that is the case.
For me, I could care less if 99% of the WC people or schools out there suck (who is to be the judge of that I don’t know, and is it really possible to know if that # is correct?), the fact is there are way to many variables to come to any conclusion as to what classifies one student/school to suck, and one to not. All I know for me is that WC is fun to practice, fun to teach and fun to talk about with like minded people. IMO this is the reason why most of us train in it, as the idea of us having to be super fighters and using those skills on a daily basis is “fantasy thinking” and totally theoretical.
James
[QUOTE=OneHitter;846213]I would just like to respond to this I rarely post on here because there is way to much political BS on here. To the point the way we train in my school is precisely what you would call dragon back. The back is rounded, the chest is sunken, the stomach is relaxed and released, the shoulders are also sunk. All movements are initiated from the legs then hips then abdominal then upper body but when reaching the upper body rather then raising and activating the shoulders we sink them using the lats solidifying in a instance then relaxing. Not that you have said anything about power in this quote but to everyone that thinks there is no ppower in wing chun punches, those who throw their puches in this manner know otherwise. Peace =) I would also just like to add that this all sounds complicated maybe but it is not it is just broke down. Once practiced and trained it happens just as fast or faster as a jab in boxing.[/QUOTE]
Interesting, thanks for the info:)…sorry to hear about all the political bs;)
[QUOTE=Edmund;846214]How you apply the techniques against opponents determines awareness of the basics.
The WC punches in the air are similar to lots of other styles. That doesn’t make a Hop Gar person aware of any WC basics at all.
Without any experience in the actual art and a lot of shallow stereotypes of what it entails, you aren’t in a position to argue the good and bad points of WC. You’ve talked about subtlety in WC that you obviously haven’t even learnt.
If you have genuine interest in WC but you’re conflicted, the first thing you should do is clear up all the misconceptions you have! Then maybe you can argue about what you like and don’t like.[/QUOTE]
yeah, anyway it’s not hard to size a dude up when you grew up fighting big people…you guys have some sort of magic that has never been shown on the internet, lol…i seen your masters and i seen mine…i know good gung fu basics. the masses hardly ever seen high level gung fu so what you are saying is not really relevant at all…especially when this all is coming from a fan…you guys sound like jerks. i’m not selling anything, show me the real if I’m so not knowing…
ip man’s dummy set is pretty basic gung fu fighting technique…in a real fight you only gonna use your basics…there is no magic in wing chun.
[QUOTE=Ultimatewingchun;846232]"Hello Victor, I just wanted to add again in case some of the other WC/VT vets read this…I love the style, it’s what got me into chinese martial arts…I hate the popular kung fu media, it saddens me that the commies and hollywood business men killed all the masters…then I see Bullshido videos, I thought I’d drop my analysis on the state of Wing Chun/Ving Tsun…from a fans point of view.
The Hop Ga I do has way more technique than wing chun…but the pinpoint closed stance flavor is something special in the martial art world..I feel it is assassin level martial art, not for the masses.
The masses are the reason those bullshido videos are there." (diego)
***I HAPPEN TO AGREE with almost all of what you say (although the actual extent of wing chun concepts, techniques, and strategies may surprise you)…but nonetheless you’re on point, imo, diego.
It is an “assassin” level martial art from close quarters - but too few wing chun people can make it so. And yes, imo, your suggestion that understanding (doing) other longer range styles (and I would add wrestling/grappling in there as well)…does make for a clearer understanding of just how effective wing chun can be - from standing close quarters.
It can be devastating at that range.
Truly a paradox is this art, imo. It does seem to suck in the hands of the “masses” - for a multitude of reasons. But at the other end of the spectrum a really good wing chun fighter is a dangerous man.
Kind of like making Gold in the middle ages: 99 charlatan…1% GENIUS.
Doesn’t sound like enough return on the investment - does it?[/QUOTE]
Glad we’re on the same page, gung fu is my hobby and recreation. I love talking about it. Thank you for adding to my original thread. The Kajukenbo Hop Ga I do was taught to my stepdad by a Philipino chap named Kaido during the 70’s in Montreal, Canada. Kaido mastered Kajukenbo which has judo/japanese jujitsu, kenpo/karate, and western/chinese boxing. Kaido also knew the Philipino arts and I’m still trying to figure out exactly what hop ga he got from Harry Ng…the wing chun principles are not hard at all to apply to Kaido’s short range footwork..I hope to learn the wing chun butterfly knives in the future, and I really love your guys hook hand bridge to floating palms…you do it in the SLT and the Wooden Dummy set. Kaido uses the hop ga method of one power shot per stane…cat stance back fist, bow stance rear punch…but from the kajukenbo he always tries to get a hit inbetween the stance change…I like his form more than muay thai…how low he gets in his workout would throw the average joe’s back out:)..something that would take twenty years to really master…but ten years to really do properly…head doesn’t bounce up and down, and the rear knee constantly sweeps the ground while you sink twist float and spin your horse. I can see myself playing the subtle upright method of wing chun when I’m an old man and the kidneys are too tight to be doing proper tornado kicks.
[QUOTE=diego;846287]ip man’s dummy set is pretty basic gung fu fighting technique…in a real fight you only gonna use your basics…there is no magic in wing chun.[/QUOTE]
Yip Man’s dummy set isn’t even fighting technique, it is called training, just like chi sau, forms and the rest of the various curriculums (this is why your assesment of WC is incorrect, you don’t even realize what the difference is btwn training and application within the system). You can’t judge the figther based on what he does in his training, when he is working on something specific. I guess for you, you are lucky Yip Man is dead, as there is no way for him to fight you to see what happens:p
I do agree that there is no magic formula’s in Wing Chun, only hard work and lots of understanding of what you are doing is the key IMO.
James
!!!
More Diego pontifications!!
joy chaudhuri
[QUOTE=sihing;846290]Yip Man’s dummy set isn’t even fighting technique, it is called training, just like chi sau, forms and the rest of the various curriculums (this is why your assesment of WC is incorrect, you don’t even realize what the difference is btwn training and application within the system). You can’t judge the figther based on what he does in his training, when he is working on something specific. I guess for you, you are lucky Yip Man is dead, as there is no way for him to fight you to see what happens:p
I do agree that there is no magic formula’s in Wing Chun, only hard work and lots of understanding of what you are doing is the key IMO.
James[/QUOTE]
dude i’m like 6 foot 5 no disrespect to the dead, but I’m not talking out of my ass
so there is a million ways to apply tan sao front kick to wing arm side stamping kick? lol…maybe ten realistic aplications you could get out of that, most of them would be variations…use the tan to gaurd and kick his groin…use the tan to his eyes and kick the groin lol…it’s basic man…kaido be hitting from every angle tasmanian devil on crack style and then he drives right through the center.
chi sao is a game of chess not fighting drills…a game of testing chi and working your root…where’s the real fight training?..you guys put on gloves and kick box, or you go old school and kill each other like romans.
and lol at it’s not fighting technique…ip chun demos direct application right after his father demos the form…got the book four feet from me.
[QUOTE=diego;846296]dude i’m like 6 foot 5 no disrespect to the dead, but I’m not talking out of my ass
so there is a million ways to apply tan sao front kick to wing arm side stamping kick? lol…maybe ten realistic aplications you could get out of that, most of them would be variations…use the tan to gaurd and kick his groin…use the tan to his eyes and kick the groin lol…it’s basic man…kaido be hitting from every angle tasmanian devil on crack style and then he drives right through the center.
chi sao is a game of chess not fighting drills…a game of testing chi and working your root…where’s the real fight training?..you guys put on gloves and kick box, or you go old school and kill each other like romans.:)[/QUOTE]
I guess now I’m expected to come back with a bunch of Ya Butts:eek:. How about a little piece of advice, stop thinking in black and white photographs, this is the 21st century we have video cameras everywhere:)
Nice chattin wit ya
James
[QUOTE=sihing;846300]I guess now I’m expected to come back with a bunch of Ya Butts:eek:.
James[/QUOTE]
well i’m talking about history…your ****ed off bullshido dissed your life…i’m defending your ancestors to the martial masses homie. pz
[QUOTE=diego;846302]well i’m talking about history…your ****ed off bullshido dissed your life…i’m defending your ancestors to the martial masses homie. pz[/QUOTE]
I haven’t even heard about the bullshido thing until it came up here, and I didn’t take the lovely opportunity to look at what they were saying. For me, most everything said on internet forums I take with a grain of salt, so there is no emotion involved on my part friend.
IMO there is no need for defending anything, people are people and they will think what they like, that is the way of things dude. It’s best to just appreciate what you got, help someone out if they need it, and spend time with people you enjoy hangin with, no need to take everything (especially WC and Martial Arts in general) so serious.
Happy training bro:)
James
[QUOTE=sihing;846305]I haven’t even heard about the bullshido thing until it came up here, and I didn’t take the lovely opportunity to look at what they were saying. For me, most everything said on internet forums I take with a grain of salt, so there is no emotion involved on my part friend.
IMO there is no need for defending anything, people are people and they will think what they like, that is the way of things dude. It’s best to just appreciate what you got, help someone out if they need it, and spend time with people you enjoy hangin with, no need to take everything (especially WC and Martial Arts in general) so serious.
Happy training bro:)
James[/QUOTE]
Cheers…I was actually born up in sue saint marie…moved out to vanouver when I was a month old… weather is pretty sunny right now, should be training at the beach in shorts in a couple of weeks…Is it cold in Ontario?.
[QUOTE=diego;846308]Cheers…I was actually born up in sue saint marie…moved out to vanouver when I was a month old… weather is pretty sunny right now, should be training at the beach in shorts in a couple of weeks…Is it cold in Ontario?.[/QUOTE]
I’ve been thru the Sue a few times, but never as far out west as Vancouver. It’s been a dam cold and long winter here, lots of snow too. I was just out in Calgary, it was much nicer there, and I hear the more west you go the better it gets..I’m missing the old west:D
James
[QUOTE=sihing;846311]I’m missing the old west:D
James[/QUOTE]
Me too.
Best,
Kenton