[QUOTE=JPinAZ;1270859]I can agree with this. While yes, WC is mostly a shorter range striking style, I wouldn’t say wing chun is only a short range art as that is limiting. As I see WC being a principle-based art (lol, T will like that), not technique based, it has strategies/tactics/tools for all ‘ranges’, with different mechanics for the various ‘ranges’. It’s just that it mainly employs short range striking, so tends to get categorized as such.[/QUOTE]
From an outside(of Wing Chun, not outside range) perspective, this sounds pretty accurate.
And of course, range is a momentary thing at times, but being able to determine the range at the moment is a definite skill. Distance (as in timing and distance) is probably a better description, I suppose.
[QUOTE=tc101;1270852]A straight punch with your arm fully extended does’t get any longer lol. [/QUOTE]
Since long fist is my primary foundation art, I can answer this question. If you keep your chest and arm in a 90 degree angle, you can punch with both arms at the same time but you won’t have maximum reach. To turn your body and make your punching arm, chest, and back shoulder in a perfect straight line will give you the maximum reach. If you also lift your back leg into a golden roster stance, lean your body forward, that will give you even more reach.
[QUOTE=YouKnowWho;1270863]Since long fist is my primary foundation art, I can answer this question. If you keep your chest and arm in a 90 degree angle, you can punch with both arms at the same time but you won’t have maximum reach.
[/QUOTE]
Precisely, I don’t know of a punch in wing chun like this.
[QUOTE=Faux Newbie;1270866]Precisely, I don’t know of a punch in wing chun like this.[/QUOTE]
are you saying you don’t know of a WC punch “with both arms at the same time” as YKW says? Or you don’t know of a WC punch i.e. long range etc as he described?
[QUOTE=HybridWarrior;1270868]are you saying you don’t know of a WC punch “with both arms at the same time” as YKW says? Or you don’t know of a WC punch i.e. long range etc as he described?[/QUOTE]
I meant where you “turn your body and make your punching arm, chest, and back shoulder in a perfect straight line will give you the maximum reach.” I thought the wing chun straight was with the hand still in line with your own center line. Keep in mind I am not a wing chun practitioner.
This was not to say this makes it incomplete, merely in relation to discussion of distance fighting and wing chun(long range) and different strategies based off of the reach of attacks.
Oh, I see my error. I pasted the wrong part of his text. My mistake.
[QUOTE=Faux Newbie;1270870]I meant where you “turn your body and make your punching arm, chest, and back shoulder in a perfect straight line will give you the maximum reach.” I thought the wing chun straight was with the hand still in line with your own center line. Keep in mind I am not a wing chun practitioner.
This was not to say this makes it incomplete, merely in relation to discussion of distance fighting and wing chun(long range) and different strategies based off of the reach of attacks.
Oh, I see my error. I pasted the wrong part of his text. My mistake.[/QUOTE]
no worries.
yes, WC has a “pole punch” (sometimes referred to by other names) which is very similar to what YKW described in his post.
Thx.
[QUOTE=HybridWarrior;1270871]no worries.
yes, WC has a “pole punch” (sometimes referred to by other names) which is very similar to what YKW described in his post.
Thx.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=HybridWarrior;1270871]no worries.
yes, WC has a “pole punch” (sometimes referred to by other names) which is very similar to what YKW described in his post.
Thx.[/QUOTE]
Agreed. In my experience this is typically thrown to cover the space between yourself and an opponent when you’ve lost facing and there’s a ‘hole’ between you and your opponent. Surely a strike, but more of an emergency technique because you lost facing vs a strategy form when you have facing IMO.
Only difference I can see from what JW said and this is that you still would want to keep your COG/self CL intact and both feet on the ground for any of the cases I can think of where you would use this.
This posture is the trade mark of the long fist system.
Believe it or not, when I started my UT Austin informal Kung Fu class back in 1973, there were 2 TCMA instructors, Jeffery Law (from Ip Men) who taught the 1st hour WC class. I (from Li Mao-Ching) taught the 2nd hour long fist class. After 1 month, all students were confused big time. We had to separate 2 systems after that. IMO, a cross training between WC and long fist is very difficult in the beginner stage. But after you have a solid foundation from one system, to add principles from another system (but still use your original system as your base) is quite possible.
In 1848 red boat era Wck, there are long distance strike which is the sword finger. As in the photo.
The technic is used because it is light and fast, an emei technic use for super fast probing , faster then biu Jee, and three inch longer the fist, since Wck is different compare to long fist, the long fist technic such as in CLF is slower and have a different combat strategy. Wck and clf making use on different types of momentum It is like the different in speed using arm compare with leg.
I study both Wck and clf within The Cho family, and we have set which is a hybrid where one switch between WCK and CLF. It is very difficult to get this type of training right, because it is difficult to switch between the snake engine of emei and the flying gyros engine of CLF. Most people I know end up default to CLF and the set become a CLF type with Wck posture.
In this closing salutation of the long set SLT, the bong elbow is short strike the sword finger is long fist strike. Hero is the synonym of the anti Qing. The posture is a symbol presenting the identity of opera sect anti Qing of yik kam Wck lineage
[QUOTE=Faux Newbie;1270870]I meant where you “turn your body and make your punching arm, chest, and back shoulder in a perfect straight line will give you the maximum reach.” I thought the wing chun straight was with the hand still in line with your own center line. Keep in mind I am not a wing chun practitioner.
.[/QUOTE]
Both Pin Sun WCK and Yuen Kay Shan/Sum Nun WCK have a “Pin Sun Da” or “Side Body Strike” that is essentially what you describe.
I just want to clear up a couple of things I’ve said from my perspective.
When I say that Hendrik’s views are idle speculation I mean his ideas do not come from his practice but from some other source and is therefore not trustworthy. I’ve seen this on a boxing forum also some guy who doesn’t box and never boxed will quote various sources including valid sources and put together in his head in an academic way a understanding of boxing but his understanding is in a word hogwash. It doesn’t work like that.
I think there is lots lots lots of misinformation in wing chun and Chinese martial arts generally. I think it comes from people like Hendrik and others who repeat things they have heard and not fron experience. Then this misinformation is passed along as wisdom to a new bunch of Hendriks.
This long medium short range stuff is some of this information. The real world does not work like that. Instead of listening to the Hendriks look for yourself with your own eyes even if you aren’t doing it for yourself look at people who are. Look at the Orr team, Obasi, rick Spain or the other prominent wing chun fighters and do you see any or all of them just or mainly fighting at close range? No. You see them fighting in long medium and short range or to put it another way you see them fighting in stand up range. That is the reality of fighting.
The other factor here is the individual. How you put things together for yourself through sparring will be individual. If you are a lanky 6’4" how you make your training work will be different than someone who is 5’6" and stocky. Individually you may PREFER the inside but maybe you will PREFER the outside. By prefer I do not mean in your head but that you naturally excel there. You may begin thinking I want to fight on the inside and find you are not very good there but are a natural for the outside. You see this is why you can’t figure it out intellectually but can only see from experience doing it.
[QUOTE=tc101;1270889]I think there is lots lots lots of misinformation in wing chun and Chinese martial arts generally. I think it comes from people like Hendrik and others who repeat things they have heard and not fron experience. Then this misinformation is passed along as wisdom to a new bunch of Hendriks.[/QUOTE]
I would be honored and proud to be called a new Hendrik! the man has mad skills.
[QUOTE=tc101;1270889]When I say that Hendrik’s views are idle speculation I mean his ideas do not come from his practice but from some other source and is therefore not trustworthy.[/QUOTE]This is pure speculation, Have you met the man or touched hands with him? I have!
[QUOTE=tc101;1270889]This long medium short range stuff is some of this information. The real world does not work like that. Instead of listening to the Hendriks look for yourself with your own eyes.[/QUOTE]
I have, I’ve sparred and rolled with some of the top pro MMA fighters in Canada, my wing chun before meeting Hendrik and learning his snake engine worked very well, in fact I dominated the stand up sparring component with my wck. Pro MMA fighters were unsuccessful with taking me down in fact they often commented on what a good base I have, which they weren’t expecting from a traditional martial artist especially from a kung fu guy.They even suggested that I compete in MMA, but I am too old now. However when I decided to cooporate and play their game of BJJ Rolling or Wrestling to get some training in, their ground game was much more superior to mine . I think wck throws their timing off.
So I’ve done my share of full contact sparring and believe me I’ve looked for myself with my own eyes. For the last 10 years i’ve been a journey man in Wck researching every possible linage of the art that i could find (Yip Man wc, Kulo PSWC, YKS/sum nungWC, Buddha Hand wc, Vietnamese WC, Yiu Choi wc, ). The WCK technology that Hendrik showed me was on a different level to what I was doing before.
[QUOTE=tc101;1270889]Even if you aren’t doing it for yourself, look at people who are, Look at the Orr team, Obasi, rick Spain or the other prominent wing chun fighters and do you see any or all of them just or mainly fighting at close range? No. You see them fighting in long medium and short range or to put it another way you see them fighting in stand up range. That is the reality of fighting.[/QUOTE]That’s because they are using the wck art in a sparring context verses a real world self defense scenero with no rules. I’ve worked as a full time Bouncer for over 16 years, and i have compted in full contact tournaments. I can assure yoy i know what the difference is between the two.
[QUOTE=kung fu fighter;1270894]I would be honored and proud to be called a new Hendrik! the man has mad skills.
This is pure speculation, Have you met the man or touched hands with him? I have!
I have, I’ve sparred and rolled with some of the top pro MMA fighters in Canada, my wing chun before meeting Hendrik and learning his snake engine worked very well, in fact I dominated the stand up sparring component with my wck. Pro MMA fighters were unsuccessful with taking me down in fact they often commented on what a good base I have, which they weren’t expecting from a traditional martial artist especially from a kung fu guy.They even suggested that I compete in MMA, but I am too old now. However when I decided to cooporate and play their game of BJJ Rolling or Wrestling to get some training in, their ground game was much more superior to mine . I think wck throws their timing off.
So I’ve done my share of full contact sparring and believe me I’ve looked for myself with my own eyes. For the last 10 years i’ve been a journey man in Wck researching every possible linage of the art that i could find (Yip Man wc, Kulo PSWC, YKS/sum nungWC, Buddha Hand wc, Vietnamese WC, Yiu Choi wc, ). The WCK technology that Hendrik showed me was on a different level to what I was doing before.
That’s because they are using the wck art in a sparring context verses a real world self defense scenero with no rules. I’ve worked as a full time Bouncer for over 16 years, and i have compted in full contact tournaments. I can assure yoy i know what the difference is between the two.[/QUOTE]
Thanks for clearing up your overall view tc101. I’ll be clear, I don’t care about the Hendrick part of it, but the main points in relation to Wing Chun and usage and range I found on topic, concise, and useful.
Which, for anyone who may forget, is “Wing Chun long, medium, or short range sparring?”
Thanks for clearing up your overall view tc101. I’ll be clear, I don’t care about the Hendrick part of it, but the main points in relation to Wing Chun and usage and range I found useful, concise, and on topic.
Which topic being, for anyone who may forget, is “Wing Chun long, medium, or short range sparring?”
[QUOTE=HybridWarrior;1270871]no worries.
yes, WC has a “pole punch” (sometimes referred to by other names) which is very similar to what YKW described in his post.
Thx.[/QUOTE]
