The Elbow is useless? Where do u get this crap really? The elbow and the knee are probably two of the most powerful techniques u have in clinch/close range fighting. Sometimes i wonder if u have ever actually done any MA’s. Yes its limited in range but its not meant for any kind of distance exchange.
[QUOTE=YouKnowWho;1155421]Please show some pictures or clips in the Biu Jee form that has:
- downward elbow,
- upward elbow,
- straight elbow,
- horizontal elbow,
- backward elbow,
- both forward and backward elbows,
- both right and left elbows,
- …
[/QUOTE]
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BhdmnxHdfRw
Here is a video of a Fong lineage practitioner doing the Biu Jee (It’s in slow-mo as a reference).
As I was taught by my sifu (also Fong lineage): When you pull your arms back to “neutral position” (chambered by the chest) in each form, you’re training elbow strikes with the posterior of the elbow.
As I practice the Biu Jee form, the first set of elbows are “piercing”, i.e. they are done with a stabbing motion, training strikes with the tips of the elbows. The second set (with the stepping) are done as “hacking” , training strikes with the ‘blades’ of the elbows/ forearms. The third elbow set is training “crushing” elbows, using forceful downward pressure.
[QUOTE=anerlich;1155468]While one has to take the reality check and realise that fighting in a phone booth is a farcical situation …
Choy Li Fut does not solely consist if big swinging attacks. There are close range movements as well.
Sky marshals etc. have to operate in “tubular environments”. And there are plenty of places which are basically narrow corridors in buildings.[/QUOTE]
The phone booth is an analogy of a situation where one has limited ability to move and generate “typical” power.
One can just as easily say:
In a crowd, in a corner, back against the wall, in a bathroom stall ( crappy situation but there you have it), etc.
As for the notion that Hung Kuen and CLF don’t have close range, well, it seems that Yoshi is confusing what he thinks he knows about those systems with what those systems actually do/train.
[QUOTE=YouKnowWho;1155421]
The elbow is only used in dire emergencies. Where you can not use the fist. The elbow is not as powerful as you might think, and the weapon is only about a foot long at best. It is like hitting someone with an 8 inch stick. It might hurt, but it will not hurt near enough to do you much good. You have to get to within a foot of the target, and your force is only a short swing of the upper arm with some of your weight behind it, maybe. Not much of your weight anyway. If you try to fight someone with your elbows you are going to get beaten badly. The only time an elbow is worth anything is when it is the only thing you can use at that time. Back when WC was being developed, Kung fu was about the only thing you would have to deal with. You have seen guys doing forms and such, and try to imagine doing that in a narrow run or doorway on a small junk or boat. You would not have enough room to fight. WC was developed on that boat and in that doorway or narrow run you can punch and kick with all your force and power. Standing in a real narrow space I can punch very hard, and I can kick very hard. Try getting through that small run by use of your elbows, and I will end up with your lunch money. Outside it’s most useful situation(the phone booth) you have to improvise and overcome. You crowd the guy and render his best and most powerful weapons useless if you can.[/QUOTE]
It’s a really good thing you know what you’re talking about. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OowSKtuW8YA
[QUOTE=Yoshiyahu;1155465]In a phone booth..Hung Gar and choy li fut and other longer or round punching styles would have less advantage. Yes Hung Gar has some direct in middle attacks but the power generation is different. Wing Chun is more Linear than choy li fut or hung ga if you fight with it traditionally…
if you use choy li fut like a western boxing…you will be limited when it comes to round punches outside of the jab and right and left crosses. sure uppercuts be utilize but WC method is for going straight ie sun punch…where choy li fut uses more outside attacks that uses swinging motion to generate more power!!!
That swinging motion or swinging range would be greatly limited by an enclosed space![/QUOTE]
yeah..kinda thought your answer would be like that…
This is a very common misconception those outside the system have.
The reality is, Hung-Ga has pretty much the same techniques and power generation when using the short bridges. It is not a long bridge system that has some short hand techniques. On the contrary, it was originally a short bridge system that added longer bridging to it. Tan, bong, fook, pak, gan, kwun, yjkym, short shifting, inch power, elbows, sticking, trapping, lin sil die da, etc., have always been in the system. Look at the snake and crane techniques and one would think they are much more similar than different.
CLF’s Crane and Snake, utilizes the same principles.
Power generation is similar in many cases as well-out of necessity.
Having trained in all three systems, I have more than a little knowledge on this.
(although I do admit I have spent much less time in CLF)
[QUOTE=Dragonzbane76;1155487]Elbow is useless? Where do u get this crap really? The elbow and the knee are probably two of the most powerful techniques u have in clinch/close range fighting. Sometimes i wonder if u have ever actually done any MA’s. Yes its limited in range but thats not what its intent is for. You compare it to a short stick. I compare it like being hit with a hammer.[/QUOTE]
One major point of Jackie’s that I agree with is the time to use elbows from a WCK perspective - in emergencies. Bascially, it’s when our range and/or facing gets compramised and it’s the only weapon available to us. If it’s range that was lost, yes we would be in a clinch timeframe.
But, my understanding of elbows as a tool in WCK, it isn’t our primary weapon because to use them means I had to give up my own space (I let my opponent inside my ‘box’) and lost full range to use both hands equally. We don’t look to strike with elbows from the get go, we use them to get back to our preffered range and to regain facing if needed. But they are fun to use and do hurt like he11 when used with proper body methods! 
[QUOTE=TenTigers;1155531]The reality is, Hung-Ga… it was originally a short bridge system that added longer bridging to it. Tan, bong, fook, pak, gan, kwun, yjkym, short shifting, inch power, elbows, sticking, trapping, lin sil die da, etc., have always been in the system. Look at the snake and crane techniques and one would think they are much more similar than different.[/QUOTE]
Quite an interesting claim about the seed of WCK being in HG, but as a practitioner yourself can you confirm that Hung Gar actually use the ‘terms’? (Tan, bong, fook, pak, gan, kwun, yjkym etc)
I’d rather not comment about the ‘phone booth’ stuff, besides it’s called a phone box in the UK!
[QUOTE=LoneTiger108;1155578]I’d rather not comment about the ‘phone booth’ stuff, besides it’s called a phone box in the UK![/QUOTE]
All you Brits and Aussies on this forum need some basic education here to understand proper terminology.
Please review:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jDcdkbrAA3U
Thank you.
in a bathroom stall ( crappy situation but there you have it)
Pun intended?
[QUOTE=LoneTiger108;1155578]Quite an interesting claim about the seed of WCK being in HG, but as a practitioner yourself can you confirm that Hung Gar actually use the ‘terms’? (Tan, bong, fook, pak, gan, kwun, yjkym etc)
I’d rather not comment about the ‘phone booth’ stuff, besides it’s called a phone box in the UK![/QUOTE]
we use different terms, usually more older descriptives, such as gang-sao, or mai yun jiew gang for tan, etc. But we also use terms such as bong, yjkym.
[QUOTE=Wayfaring;1155584]All you Brits and Aussies on this forum need some basic education here to understand proper terminology.
Please review:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jDcdkbrAA3U
Thank you.[/QUOTE]
Great, english lessons from a yank! 
[QUOTE=Lee Chiang Po;1155481]The elbow is not as powerful as you might think, [/QUOTE]
Old Chinese saying said, " - I prefer to be hit 10 times by punches than to be hit once by elbow." There is a good reason that elbow is still not allowed in the San Shou and San Da ring even the knee is already allowed.
When your opponent is on the ground, an elbow strike on his “heart area” can finish that fight.
[QUOTE=Dragonzbane76;1155487]Elbow is useless? Where do u get this crap really? The elbow and the knee are probably two of the most powerful techniques u have in clinch/close range fighting. Sometimes i wonder if u have ever actually done any MA’s. Yes its limited in range but thats not what its intent is for. You compare it to a short stick. I compare it like being hit with a hammer.[/QUOTE]
What you describe as close range techniques is what I refer to as dire emergency. In a clinch where you can not use a punch or kick, the knee or elbow can be useful. It is not powerful or practical enough to fight with otherwise. It is like taking a pocket knife to a sword fight. Really, it is not a decent weapon in a fight other than what I described. Whan I was young, I could role off an elbow and not even feel the blow. If you knee someone in the face it will certainly hurt, and it might even knock you out, but it is longer and has more muscle power behind it. The elbow is not nearly so. However, just coming in and trying to knee someone outside a clinch you are going to eat some fist.
[QUOTE=YouKnowWho;1155682]Old Chinese saying said, " - I prefer to be hit 10 times by punches than to be hit once by elbow." There is a good reason that elbow is still not allowed in the San Shou and San Da ring even the knee is already allowed.
When your opponent is on the ground, an elbow strike on his “heart area” can finish that fight.[/QUOTE]
Well, I am an old Chinaman and I would never say that. Everyone seems to be trying to justify the elbow as a prime fighting weapon when it really isn’t. Pick you a fight with someone and try fighting with your elbows, then tell me how effective it is.
Yeah, elbows have no power:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3s6rF0gId4E
[QUOTE=TenTigers;1155657]we use different terms, usually more older descriptives, such as gang-sao, or mai yun jiew gang for tan, etc. But we also use terms such as bong, yjkym.[/QUOTE]
Thanks for answering dude. I find HGK one of the most fascinating systems and have heard about their ‘lost’ short bridge style. Personally, always been of the opinion that Wing Chun has a few things to say about that
The thing many people seem to misunderstand is that Wing Chun itself is in fact a slang language that must have had older roots and HGK is one of the more ‘written’ styles imho preserving some of the oldest Martial language we have today.
In this sense, Wing Chun has always been ‘modern’.
Much better convo than phone boxes and elbows lol!
this thread is right up there for awards of most clueless quotes in a single thread. 
Starting with analogy of the phonebox as a concept of fighting in a confined area being taken literally as a phone box and from then on,
Fighting three people in phone box - lol, how big is the phone box?
Elbows lack power - lol, step into a ring with an MT fighter and see if you change your mind.:rolleyes:
The idea of a boxer throwing hooks in a phone box - if you’ve done boxing you’d know that you need to move your body to throw a decent hook and aside from the mamoth, three person holding booth above you’d be banging your head / opposite shoulder on the wall of the booth and your elbow on the other one. The fact that he could simply throw uppercuts, jabs and crosses seems to have escaped attention.
Loving it, haven’t laughed so much in ages…
If a guy took too long on the phone call and it was in a booth, I’d do this ! Get off the phone !
Now thats a Thai elbow !!!
for BJJ ground and pound in a booth !!
[QUOTE=wingchunIan;1156044]this thread is right up there for awards of most clueless quotes in a single thread.
Starting with analogy of the phonebox as a concept of fighting in a confined area being taken literally as a phone box and from then on,
Fighting three people in phone box - lol, how big is the phone box?
Elbows lack power - lol, step into a ring with an MT fighter and see if you change your mind.:rolleyes:
The idea of a boxer throwing hooks in a phone box - if you’ve done boxing you’d know that you need to move your body to throw a decent hook and aside from the mamoth, three person holding booth above you’d be banging your head / opposite shoulder on the wall of the booth and your elbow on the other one. The fact that he could simply throw uppercuts, jabs and crosses seems to have escaped attention.
Loving it, haven’t laughed so much in ages…:p[/QUOTE]
This thread IS the WC forum, lol !
get off the PHONE !!! CLIP