Hi all, I have to say that some of the fastest hands I have seen on a martial artist have been on Wing Chun guys, so I wanted to know the following. Are there excercises consistantly practiced in Wing Chun (spelled however you want), that over time develop this to a high level/and/or relaxation in the shoulders to generate this? I know a lot of schools do 1000’s of vertical punches and the like, but I have a hunch there are other things that are used for this development as well. If so, care to satisfy my curiosity? Thanks!
I dont think they are generally faster than others in fact probably slower than most boxers.
Although you’re not the first person I have heard say this. I think it’s because WC’unners normally chain punch and this decieves the observer.
No secrets though, same for any punch, speed comes from working the twitch muscle and developing targetted relaxation.
“Slower than Most” ??? You must be speaking of your own skill.
slower than most boxers??? I thinks the speed is not only in the punches but the transition from technique to technique.
W
Golden Arms:
Wing Chun punches ARE structurally slightly faster than other punches because the line (route) used is a straighter one than even the straight punches used in boxing.
And the shortest distance between two points is a straight line…(shorter distance to travel means you arrive there faster).
Speed of punch delivery is not quite the same thing as hand speed.
i don’t know that’s so much of a style attribute as it is personal
Originally posted by KingMonkey
Speed of punch delivery is not quite the same thing as hand speed.
Right. “It doesn’t matter who is faster, as much as who gets there first.”
Regards,
- Kathy Jo
There is an old chinese proverb that says:
You do not know something until you do it 1000 times
You do not understand something until you do it 10,000 times
I have heard several wing chun sifu’s use that saying. Practicing 1000 chain punches a day definately helps develope your speed and technique of the punch. On this topic I will say its not the individual 100%. A lot of it has to do with what victor said about the structure and mechanics of a wing chun punch. To my knowledge wing chun is one of the very few systems that punches like this and emphasizes using the bottom 3 knuckles. Other systems have straight punches, but not really like wing chuns. I am not saying other systems are wrong. A lot of times it can be looked at hitting first, and making as many hits as possible on your opponet. If you take several punches to the body really fast over and over to will get some kind of shock from it, and it will eventually overwhelm your opponet unless they act upon it.
OTOH, I have also seen some very fast hooks, crosses,jabs, uppercuts, and especially back fists. So, part of it does depend on the individual’s skill.
Thanks..keep it coming if you have more info. And yes..I realize there is such a thing as natural talent, but I also know that a common thread in many wing chun players that have been doing it a while (10+) years or so, is that they have a good relaxed, fast hand speed and mechanics…not the only martial art to do so, but definately good at it.
The mechanics responses make a lot of sense, since it would be learning a “way to move”…very cool.
Sorry for this, but I am going to go slightly off topic and say something I have been thinking about lately about the chain/straight punch.
They say the chain punch comes from the heart. It does in a litteral sense, and a metaphorical sense. Litterally because you chamber the punch at the center of your chest, right where your heart would be. This action also by nature and structure is guarding the body. The elbow is dropped and guarding. The arm is not tense so you can feel incoming attacks. When attacking the centerline you are in return guarding your own center line with your bridges. So I find it amazing that our basic attack, is also an advanced attack by both guarding and attacking at the same time. While also being in an effecient posistion to act upon and feel out your opponet.
Okay, just had to put that out there, sorry for being a bit off topic.
GF
Positioning, alignment and timing.
Shows up not only in fist work but in palm work and everything else.
yuanfen
Hi GA,
It’s probably less a matter of speed and more a matter of flow. Through chisau training, the average wc practitioner learns to flow from one thing to the next, in any order, without thinking. This may give the illusion of hand speed, but I bet if you measure it, the speed of an average wing chun punch isn’t that much faster than an average boxing punch, if at all.
Just my two cents, I may be wrong…
Regards,
Alan
IMO the SINGLE Wing Chun punch is not necessarily faster than any other straight punch.
What WC structure SHOULD allow, if done properly, is more punches in a given interval.
For supreme speed, you will probably have to make some sacrifices in other areas.
Other than the structure, you as a human are up against the same obstacles as anyone else, and would train for an explosive punch the same ways a sprinter, boxer, shotputter, javelin thrower, pitcher, etc would to increase the speed of your punch. Realistically though, there is very little you can do with your physiology to DRAMATICALLY increase single punch speed - only small increases are realistic. The real advantages come in learning timing and incorporating other aspects such as footwork.
My Sifu once spent six months really trying to increase his punches per second. He achieved a measurable increase and reached the goal he had sert himself, but gave it up after that as he felt the concentration on this single aspect was hurting his overall proficiency.
“Speediness” of chain punches also varies greatly according to how far back the fist travels before it begins to move forward again.
-Compare the difference in the rate of punches thrown when the fist withdraws to; the mid-forearm (short path), the elbow (medium path), and then mid-bicep (long path). Also, hold a striking pad for someone while they do this, and FEEL the difference in those punches…
-Lawrence
Golden Arms
When the old man appears faster than the younger man he is not referred to as lightning fast he is referred to as a sage.
What is that old Bruce Lee saying:
Its not how fast it is,
but how soon it gets there.
Always liked that one.
Originally posted by Losttrak
[B]What is that old Bruce Lee saying:
Its not how fast it is,
but how soon it gets there.[/B]
That saying far predates Bruce. Like other pearls, he was savvy enough to pick up on it.
Regards,
- Kathy Jo
Speed
Movement Speed and Reactional Speed are two elements that must be developed for Total Speed. Akin to what others have been saying here, reactional speed is the greater of the two; hence, who really “gets” there first?.
Generally speaking, the science of Wing Chun is focused around making motions as efficient as possible. This involves very specific body structures and having concepts and theories to reinforce them. Much of our Chi Sau training (just one example) presumably (can’t speak for everyone!) sharpens our reactional skills. Couple that with the usage of our space; based on wing chun structure-which is designed around efficiency, and you have what many see as the “lightening-fist”. Once you can identify with the science behind Wing Chun, you can see that person is utilizing the space before him/her more efficiently than the other; based on movement AND reaction (sensitivity) combined.
Re: Wing Chun and Hand Speed..
Golden Arms
Yes, Wing Chun has fast hands but there are pretty fast hands in other methodology. I have much respect for boxing’s speed and aggressive application.
There is no secret in hands speed. First have boxing fist form and technique, make sure it obey the principle of economy of motion (linear), and strike as fast you can. You get faster by properly
striking fast (period).
“Are there excercises consistantly practiced in Wing Chun that over time develop this to a high level/and/or relaxation in the shoulders to generate this?” Yes… Punching correctly as fast as possible, and making sure it reaches it target. It is not about throwing 1000 of vertical punches, but learning how to do it properly. By its structure alone: a Boxer’s Jab or a wing chuner’s punch is fast.
“I have a hunch there are other things that are used for this development as well.” Sure there are other supplemental training for speed. I have to keep this secret tho’. You go to Duncan Leung’s website and he has an article about how Yip Man taught him about speed.