wing chun and dim mak have the same founder? ATTN Blooming Lotus

Wai Jia: The Kung Fu Forum Kung Fu Forum
1

quote:Originally posted by SevenStar

this coming from someone who thinks that wing chun and dim mak were founded by the same person?

quote:Originally posted by SevenStar

llok…mr.i’m so 7 andknowledgable.what’ve you got to prove it’s not so???

okay, unlike you I live on proof. I will post links here - several of them showing that wing chun’s founder did NOT also create dim mak. she was versed in it, but was not it’s founder.

I will start here:

"Wing Chun History

By the start of the 17th century there was great turmoil brewing in the country and there was also unrest between the 5 elders at Shaolin. In (1644), the Manchus invaded China and ruled it with an iron fist for nearly 300 years. The Manchus were well aware of the skills of the Shaolin monks and their sympathy for refugees. The 5 elders (were Taoist and Buddhists monks) of the Shaolin temple around this period were:

Abbot Jee Shin - Shaolin Iron Cloth - (Iron Head Qi Gong master, Kung Fu expert, wooden dummy expert and weapons expert) was the creator of Wing Chun Kung Fu and the founder of Hung Gar and Praising spring boxing,.

Bai Mei - Golden Bell Iron Body - (Iron Body Qi Gong master) was the founder of White Eyebrow Kung Fu.

Fong Sai Yuk, (famous swordsman) was the founder of White Tiger Kung Fu.

Miu Hin, (was not an ordained monk, but was a Kung Fu elder) was the founder of Five Shape boxing and helped in developing Wing Chun

Ng Mui, (buddhist nun, Bil Gee master and Dim Mak expert) helped develop the practical aspects of Wing Chun Kung Fu, founded Dragon shape boxing and Wu Mei boxing."

note that is says she was a dim mak expert, but not that she founded it. this came from:

http://www.shaolinjeeshinwingchun.com.au/history.htm

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This is an excerpt from a link I posted a while back, when you originally made the claim:

“The Buddhist abbess Ng Mui came away from the Shaolin Temple with the sacred knowledge of the other four abbots. The highest form of kung fu to practice, the usage of the fingers as a strikng weapon and Dim Mak “Death Striking.” Ng Mui passed this knowledge to the young orphan girl Yim Wing Chun along with the Wing Chun Shaolin School of the Thirty Wing Chun Bil Jee Pressure Points. These cavity strikes are holes on the body that chi energy constantly flow over. Once these holes are closed, they give a painful paralyzing or crippling effect to the individual, on which it is applied. Many Shaolin Masters and systems or styles have Bil Jee incorporated in them, but few know exactly how to execute this deadly art.”

not that once again, it doesn’t say she founded it.

http://www.wingchun.com/ClaytonBilJee.html

3

Dim Mak history says that Chang Shang Feng invented taiji and dim mak (the latter in conjunction with two acupuncturists).

The Science Behind Dim Mak says that the same man created tai chi and dim mak.

Chapters 3(1)-(3) of Advanced Dim Mak says that Chang San Feng invented “hitting points” and implies he was helped by a doctor and a surgeon (the two acupuncturists mentioned at the top of my post?).

Halfway down this review page, under the review for “Dim Mak: Death Point Striking” it says Chang San Feng invented tai chi to mask the true nature of his art, which was dim mak.

Searching for info about the above book on Amazon I get this page, which may not link properly. If not, search for “history” or “introduction” under the “Search inside this book” text box for the book “Dim Mak: Death Point Striking” and choose the 2nd link for either search. The Introduction page of the book and the next page have a bit of info stating that Chang San Feng invented both dim mak and tai chi.

So, I’m not saying I have an opinion one way or another and I’m not trying to vouch for the authenticity of the info above, but that’s how it’s done, BL.

4

wasn’t ng mui alive during the 1700’s, when the temple was burned?

Zhang San Feng is credited with being pivotal to IMA development in the 14 century, including dim mak.

EDIT: toby beat me to it!

5

Uh-oh, looks like an exercise in futility!

  1. Though that proof is infinitely better than any proof that Barking Lotus has come up with so far, they’re still pretty hokey stories… LOL at finger death touches as usual… It’s kinda like as plausible as saying, ‘The Wicked Witch of the West did not invent dim mak.’ :smiley:

  2. Blooming Loopy won’t attempt to validate what she said anyway. And if she did it’d be something kinda like, ‘The Wicked Witch of the West invented wing chun and dim mak, and I have proof right here, but I just can’t get her to use the **** computer,’… :smiley:

Admittedly, the first statement is still a safer bet.

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I’m not expecting her to post any links - I know she won’t. I’m doing it because on the mantis forum, she asked for proof disproving what she claims.

7

here’s an idea: if she’s the board mascot here, why the hell do you guys care what she believes or not?

8

What kind of retarded question is being debated here anyways?

INVENTED!?!?! Dim Mak?

Why not just ask who invented punching you in the face? ‘Dim Mak’ is not a style, it’s just cantonese for ‘point hitting’ or something like that. I only speak Mandarin so I can’t say for sure what ‘mak’ is but it is most likely ‘xue’ - pressure points.

dian xue = dim mak

While were at it, lets look into who “invented” the armbar. Everybody knows that Helio Gracie invented the arm bar. At lest THAT we can document.

9

Heh, heh. Omar with his crazy ideas!:smiley:

You just can’t understand 'cause you don’t have a genius IQ! :stuck_out_tongue:

10

I used to . . .

11

…

How can you people waste so much energy on one idiot?

Later…

12

Heh, heh! Try working as a security guard on night shift for an empty office building. The rest is easy. :smiley:

13

Originally posted by Kickboxer
here’s an idea: if she’s the board mascot here, why the hell do you guys care what she believes or not?

because it’s fun.

14

King Arthur did not invent the dragon slaying technique, it was Peter Pan but only after collaberation with Merlin.

15

Cmon, everyone knows that merlin was just a drunkard with a bad gambling habit and a real “soft spot” for hookers.

16

The lineages and founders of almost all southern systems of kung fu (especially southern temples) are very sketchy and full of loop holes. The history is basically a collection of legends. How true it is, we will probably never know.

Dim Mak is not what it used to be either. With the advancement of medicines a lot of injuries that would be fatal over time, are now cureable.

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There were many versions of legends for the 5 elders.

Dim Mak is pressure pointing Mai and not Xue.

Jing Mai are vessels or conduits for Qi to flow.

These are rooted in traditional Chinese medicine (TCM).

It is based on research and experiences over time (several thousand years).

No single people may claim to invent it all.

Unless of course, he invented all Chinese medicine (acupuncture, herbs, and pressure points) and he lived to 4000 years old.

18

SPJ

19

fong sai yuk made white tiger? like the movie with jet? :smiley: lol god i loved that movie it kicked massive ass…

i guess fong sai yuk is mandarin for fong do duk then? cause thats what i was told as the founder of the style i studied it for some years a while ago when i was in alberta

20

spg,

Thanks. I’ve always been curious. I’ve read enough of the Yellow Emperor to know about jing mai. I’m actually feeling slightly stupid for not guessing ‘mai’. ‘Dim’ was an easy one since I love to eat ‘dian xin’ but ‘mai’…I feel like I should have been able to guess that one. I’m usually pretty good about guessing what the Mandarin terms are for things I’ve heard in Cantonese. The 2 languages aren’t THAT different. Kind of like Spainish and Italian.

Anyways, I guess something usefull came out of this thread after all.