Hi all to those who remember me and with all due respect I have had far to much on my plate to even train a lot let alone get onto this site, Sihing73 how are you? I’m tired of hearing this s***. YIP MAN DID NOT LEARN THE WHOLE SYSTEM. Why do you people think Chuengs system that he taught during the 70’s and early 80’s looks a lot different to all of other Wing Chun that you see out there. How long did Chueng spend in MAINLAND CHINA. Wake up, How the hell do you people learning bulls*** expect to face up to someone with completely square on footwork or tee stances. Where the the hell does the tee stance leave you in the case your opponent side steps you. GOOD LUCK. Neutral stance makes you so unbalanced in the case of a frontal attack. No wander Jeet Kune Do students take the pi** out of us. Its because of this c*** being so unrealistic. THE HONG KONG STUFF WAS TAUGHT BY A DISHONEST OPIUM DEALER, GET OVER IT AND GO AND DO BOXING AT YOU LOCAL GYM.
“take the pebble from my hand"The old monk from the TV show"Kung Fu”
I can’t believe that some think that a wing chun guy would fight in Yee gee kim yeung ma!..A training stance!!!I guess we have to put this with the “trapping” category!..Oh god! :rolleyes:And with the “straight blast” I understand why some feel the urge to crosstrain so much!..They need it. :eek:
Hmmm, I wonder about the stance. I thought it was just a training stance also. At my school, the neutral stance is the one used primarily while fighting, and they use it very well! No problem with mobility or rooting either! Go figure! Check out this article:
Hi cowboy,everything’s O.K.! Thanks.
Well,I think many peoples have some misconceptions about this stance thing.I see the stance more as a concept than a fixed stance! In a way,if you have the ygkym feeling,you can have it in any foot position!This way you can be “rooted” and mobile at the same time.This is a structure when you feel your upper and lower parts of your body are working together.This is why we often see pics of “masters” with a semingly “bad” ygkym stances doing chi sao or something.
Anyway,with your size,no goat could carry you!..Stick to your horse Cowboy
“and the rest of the Kung Fu world called him Grandmaster & thought of him as such”
hehehe…Not me!
ygkym stance is the center,like neutral on your gear shift,you can go anywhere from it.
flavour54,you are cluess my boy,ALOT of Sifus, honest people and non addicts hung out at opium
dens back then to discuss different things,it was a social meeting place for Chinese people back in the old days.it was not looked down upon,only
latter.
As for your take on JKD and boxing vs WT/VT/WC,
its not “US” thats getting our arses kicked
its YOU.
“Bound,by a burning desire,I fell into a ring of fire”
Johnny Cash :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
I realise where you’re coming from, I should point out however that the last time a member of our school ‘visited’ Cheung in Melbourne, Cheung refused to accept (yes, I train with Troy). And no, I don’t plan on elaborating on that one
I agree, in the absence of a title for someone of a much higher lineage than yourself, it may seem appropriate to call someone ‘Grandmaster’, but this would imply only seniority in terms of lineage, not skill. To me, truly being a Grandmaster implies both, AND having people recognise it - certainly members of Cheungs ‘TWC’ would agree he has the skill - which is perhaps why they all refer to him as such - whether or not the rest of us think so is another matter.
Perhaps part of the problem with the distinction is that Yip Man was both old and skilled, and that any variation of this seems to defy the idea of what is probably the only proper example we have to base opinions on? But then, I have been known to be wrong
As for Choi Li Fut students thinking Cheung knew his stuff, I would imagine they’d be impressed after seeing any WC fighter, not just Cheung (sorry, couldn’t resist that one)
i understand where you are coming from also, on both counts, meeting with not a friendly greeting and also, your understanding of what a si gung or si dai gung is.
i took exception to the questioning of why or how he can call himself a grandmaster, this not as a singular issue, it seems that many senior players and elders are being questioned by the youth of today on their validity, this is such a shame.
within the confines of the gwoon, such terminology is acceptable, and when outside it is heard, and no matter what others think, it should be respected.
issues such as who is the “keeper of the faith” from the yip man lineage as you know is and i would say will always been questionable, since yip man didn’t claim a successor.
you know immediatly after his death a very junior player made brash statements that he was the keeper, although this was refuted very quickly it did cause much distress in the early days after yip mans death.
of this one should ask who gives someone the right to make brash statments about twc or whatever, but this should not hide the fact of what skill bill or any martial player had in his/her hayday.
hahaha, see even after all these years there is still respect from the fighting days. i was told the reason the wing chun players kept coming back was they couldn’t see what was going on, they could only feel it.
You know I always find it amusing when people question the credentials of others, particularily those they have never met. I do not know William Cheung but I have met several of his students and several have a nice proven track record as far as fighting. I have met and trained with Leung Ting and also know several of his students.
Titles are a sign of respect and position within the ORGANIZATION. In America and the West in general Asian Titles have been corrupted from the original meaning. Look at some of the names people give themselves and you will see a pattern. Each wants to be more important so that they can market themselves better. It is important to realize that anyone can name themselves whatever they want, just like in corporations you can form the company and call yourself President, CEO whatever In the martial arts the same things happen. If I chose to start my own Wing Chun organization then I may wish to have some sort of naming structure to differeiate the various levels of students and instructors, at least from a commercial perspective. This is exactly what has happened in some martial arts organizations. Off the top of my head hear are a few of the “Grandmasters” of Wing Chun:
Phillip Holder,
William Cheung,
Leung Ting,
Richard Guerro,
The list could continue but I think you get the point. To the members of each of these organizations the person leading the group is the “Grandmaster”. But, much like the title Sifu, this term only applies to the members of the respective group and those that choose to recognize the person/title.
So in conclusion if you wish to grant the respect of the title “Grandmaster” or “Sifu” to someone that is your right but it does not make them so to others not in the same frame of mind.
Also, I don’t think I’ve ever heard anyone ever call William Cheung “grandmaster” of all wing chun/ving tsung. They only say he is the grandmaster of “Traditional Wing Chun”, which he chooses to call his branch of wing chun. So I don’t think other wing chun styles should be offended that he claims seniority over others. Because he or his students don’t. He is the #1 man in his particular branch. Just like Leung Ting. And Cheung’s footwork is different, yes, it’s more like the wooden dummy movements. I’ve heard others say that the fighting moves of wing chun are found in the wooden dummy. The rest trains certain things. Cheung just skips that stuff and goes right into the fighting footwork, probably because he tested his wing chun on the street in real fights and thought it was more effective. Everyone who has read this topic should read the four part article on William Cheung in Black Belt magazine, called “The William Cheung Story” I think, and reprinted on Cheung’s website. www.cheungswingchun.com/WWCKFAindex.html
scroll down on the left until you find “articles” and read the four part story. It’s interesting, even to those who could care less about Cheung. Now I’m not trying to take sides, I don’t think there should be “sides” to this. If people were more open minded about the different branches of their own art, we would all benefit. I realize that some people are open minded though. I for one would love to train with any of the wing chun greats.
Whats with him selling a video for $400 bucks on iron palm? Anyone seen the method? Its real strange. You have a bag and like three punching bags around the bag. You slap the bag, punch forward and do thousand hand strikes. What I could glean from the photo’s.
Does this make any sense? Like one guy buys the video, and then gives it away or makes a copy and pretty soon, you get to see it for free. Thats what I think when you charge too high for just a video.
sihing73, gradmaster?? Richard Guerro?..would that be only him or his older and younger ku fu brothers as well.., i should go see him, if hes a grandmaster…
As far as I know Richard Guerro was an early student of Leung Ting who chose to go his own way. I believe Richard heads up his own organization and is referred to as Grandmaster of that group. I believe he also explored some other arts and may have merged his Wing Chun with things like Kali, but I am not 100% sure of this. I know he has or had a couple of videos out a few years ago. Not sure what the present status of him or his group is.
Once your students have established strong schools, then you yourself become a grandmaster. There may be a more traditional meaning but it makes sense to me. =p I think most masters just think of themselves as masters..its the students that might add the “grand.” =p
I understand why some feel the urge to crosstrain so much!..They need it. :eek:
In the martial arts the same things happen. If I chose to start my own Wing Chun organization then I may wish to have some sort of naming structure to differeiate the various levels of students and instructors, at least from a commercial perspective. This is exactly what has happened in some martial arts organizations. Off the top of my head hear are a few of the “Grandmasters” of Wing Chun: