Originally posted by AdrianUK
[B]Why do Grapplers (generalisation) not need to learn WC ?
At the risk of a flaming here, I would guess its because its fairly easy for a grappler to close and clinch / take down, compared to stopping a clinch / takedown, especially with a weight disparity, personally I have no faith in the WC I train stopping a proper takedown attempt, and I have never seen it demonstrated to work either
Regards,
Adrian [/B]
I have more faith in my ability to stop a takedown than to accept it and grapple with the person, and find it more imperetive to do so against a larger opponent.
True, there aren’t many demonstrations of this working, that doesn’t mean it hasn’t or will not work. I have seen demonstrations (live) of concepts proposed by ‘famous’ WCers, and have faith in what I witnessed.
My statement would be how much has the grappler trained takedowns vs. how much have you trained defending them?
Originally posted by AmanuJRY
[B]I have more faith in my ability to stop a takedown than to accept it and grapple with the person, and find it more imperetive to do so against a larger opponent.
[/B]
may be we dont have to think this way? there might be other alternative?
Different thinking yield different solution right?
Metal can destroy wood, fire destroy metal, water put out fire, earth stop water,… never end why limiting one’s view? when the times come thing will be solved.
Grappling with a grappler who is larger/stronger than you is like trying to destroy a larger piece of wood with a smaller piece of wood, or a stronger piece of metal with a weaker piece of metal.
If I don’t want to ‘think’ of grappling a grappler and I don’t want to ‘think’ of stoping a grappler with other techniques…what other way is there to think of???
If I don’t want to ‘think’ of grappling a grappler and I don’t want to ‘think’ of stoping a grappler with other techniques…what other way is there to think of??? [/B]
lead him to extend and takes away his limb…?
what is your weapon?
Can your weapon damage him ?
how much destruction?
What threaten him?
Originally posted by Hendrik
[B]being an Asura is nice sometimes.
But one has to be in peace and silence to wage war.
to wage war, the mission is mass destruction. That is very different then having fun with friends and mutually learn things. [/B]
I’m not sure what an Asura is.
If your having fun, then have your fun. Engaging in pointless discussion is neither fun nor educational to me. Taking on the role of devil’s advocate can be fun and educational if it is with the purpose of directing the converstion in a positive direction. Blatant contradiction of oneself is not productive in any way for you or anyone else sharing with you.
Originally posted by AmanuJRY
[B]I’m not sure what an Asura is.
If your having fun, then have your fun. Engaging in pointless discussion is neither fun nor educational to me. Taking on the role of devil’s advocate can be fun and educational if it is with the purpose of directing the converstion in a positive direction. Blatant contradiction of oneself is not productive in any way for you or anyone else sharing with you. [/B]
You know, purpose varies person to person, role to role.
Fantasy, desire, for the poet is a wasting of time of some CEO.
But then, Fantasy and desire can be a fertelize for creativity for next generation.
reality is a paradox. what sometimes seems to be contradiction is actually not.
As the ancient Indian said, until the 4th Chakra open, one will keep practice judgmental from one angle. then again, who is saint? who is perfect? we all just human.
and the world always carry on in the way of SiVa’s dance, destruction one side creation on the other. ending is begining. That indeed is difficult to perceive and accept with linear vertical thinking, it needs a non linear lateral thinking which be able to travel the time-space discontinuoity to see throught the trap of popular trend.
like the monkey experiments, once one monkey see a way to wash the sandy coconut in the river, all monkeys will know in a short time.
before the monkey find out to wash the sandy coconut, all monkey stuck.
As some have said (or intimated) already…wing chun could do fine against grapplers (UFC, Pride)…but it just hasn’t been tried yet.
As long as some grappling has been trained along with the WC.
Because real fighting is also about fighting in the clinch, as well as on the ground - not just standup striking/kicking/sweeping…and the occasional standing arm or wrist lock. (ie.- wing chun)
And although the sprawl is an excellent move - it too has it’s limitations (as Cro Cop found out against Minotauro).
How awesome would Cro Cop be if he could also grapple well?
Get my drift?
Fighting is about everything - not just about a few things.
The more weapons you have in your arsenal - and the more you can use all those weapons WELL…and in a coherent and seamless manner…
Victor,
Your statement is true, the more weapons you have the better you will be, like the armed forces there in the good ole USA, they have access to every type of weapon available today, as compared to us up here in Canada, we have a more limited availability to weapons due to financial concerns. The problem is that it may take a long time and require allot of effort to actually gain the proficiency required to use all of these “delivery systems”. Not all of us have the time or the desire to put in the effort to make this possible. So what does one do? Well I would recommend that it’s better to be a master of one, than to be a jack of all trades, but be aware of these other trades and learn about there tactics and techniques. As someone that hasn’t crossed trained in any other MA besides my WC training, I’m I at a disadvantage? Well I would have to admit that if I was stranded on a desert Island for the last 15yrs and had no exposure to the media and therefore no exposure to other MA ideas and techniques then yeah maybe I would be disadvantaged, but since that is not the case I would have to say no I am NOT disadvantaged. Obviously opinions will vary about my above statement, but no one knows exactly what I have been exposed to or what my training has actually entailed except myself, even though on paper it looks simple. Like I said earlier in this thread, a top notch JKD instructor was surprised by the ground fighting demonstrated by a fellow instructor in my association, on paper we weren’t supposed to know that kind of stuff, but we do.
I think the important element in this issue is, regardless of how one goes about it (training in a grappling art or developing technique from your chosen art) a MAist needs to address the grappling/groundfighting range. Just as a grappler needs to address the other ranges of fighting.
