Why Do Wing Chun Stylist Cite Bruce Lee?

Wai Jia: The Kung Fu Forum Wing Chun
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[QUOTE=Yoshiyahu;934202]Besides making good kung fu movies. What made Bruce Lee any more notable than any other Martial Artists?

How was he more exceptional than Yip Man? Wong Shun Leung? or any other none Chinese Movie stars who practice a real fighting art?

My Question is if Jun Fan never made it to hollywood then would really know who he was in the west? Would we even care?[/QUOTE]

Bruce had insight then to check the universalness of interception in all martial arts, Western and Asian. That made him unique and special. If you look at my old article: (Hawkins)I asked him if he meant to create another style. Bruce firmly told me, “No! It is only the expression of the motion! You can say it is my expression of the pak sao in wing chun (note: Pak sao is one of the fundamental movements from wing chun and depending upon circumstance, it may be offensive or defensive in nature.) I didn’t betray sifu, I didn’t betray Chinese martial arts. I wanted to show others the application way of jeet kune. I wanted to prove I could stop their fast attacks coming at me.” You can apply Jeet Kuen to fencing, boxing, shooting, wrestling, BJJ, Karate, etc. It is universal.

That insight is great! He boiled it down to one major concept - and the rest of the JKD is what to do if you can’t intercept… I think it is revolutionary - no constraints to the expression of WCK. To me, that is huge - it can show how WCK can be applied to all arts, and why I call WCK the functional aspects of all martial arts. How many WCK men can do that now? All WCK men do blah, blah talk about original system, gangsters, and secret BS - but he answered Yip Man’s problem -“I may be tricking you, go out and test it…” WCK men today lack the lien gung - but this dude in the 1960’s and '70’s was looking into nutrition and experimenting with cardio training, anaerobic training, weight training (even KB’s), and 5 factors of combat - strike, kick, throw, jointlock and ground fighting. Many WCK people think they know it all now, and clearly many are lame.

He may not have been more exceptional than Yip Man or WSL, but surely in modernizing, he was. He also bridged a cultural gap, introducing the West to real martial arts. He did much more for all of us. Hollywood was just a vehicle for his craft. Don’t put Bruce down - he did all of us a world of good.

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[QUOTE=chusauli;934218]My pleasure - already old history…18 years! Wow! Some of you were in diapers still! LOL![/QUOTE]

Hahaha, RC, I am so depress when I saw this great new miss WC model… Megan

http://image.hotdog.hu/_data/members1/145/981145/images/asian_girls_megan_lai6.jpg

I dream I am still 30+ hahahah

BTW dont tell Mrs. Chu about Megan ! :D:D

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Victor,

I agree he sparred…but it was more like light touch sparring with those big names, not full contact. He was not in their weight class. Not to take anything away from anyone, but in the '60’s many were caught up in how a system looks, rather than functionality, and he was much more alive and loose and relaxed (the secret of his speed) than those guys. But those men were champs of their time.

At that time, everyone was more rigid in their thinking (but things haven’t changed that much today for many). He also knew how to psychologically trick people and strike where they would be, not where they were. He was real smart.

As far as the timing goes, he got a lot from this book:

http://www.amazon.com/Secrets-Judo-Text-Instructors-Students/dp/080481631X/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1242166126&sr=8-1#reader

Check out chapter 2.

Since I am a writer and read many, many books on the same martial books Bruce did, I could see many of his sources…

Best regards,

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Chusauli is correct.

I am just saying that we should not hold Bruce up as our hero because I don’t think that he liked us.

Who are “us”? I practice BJJ, MMA, and play around with La Canne and FMA based knifework as well as having 20 years WC, several years of xingyi/Bagua and some othr KF as well. I might be closer to some JKD guys than to those you seem to want to call “us”.

I am just anti-Bruce-Lee as an authority on our art.

I don’t think anyone seriously regards him as a WC authority. As a general MAist, however, his fame and influence are indisputable. He achieved far more in his short life than any of his critics and detractors here ever will.

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When one stops looking at one’s ego and persona, system, etc, and considers the universalness of Bruce Lee’s teaching, they have to see the best that Bruce Lee gave us.

For me, having studied many martial arts, but specializing in WCK, I see the positive capability that WCK can have on society as a whole. All martial arts end with simplicity, directness, and economy of motion, can intercept and have to train what is functional. Man is more important than system, system is only a means to get there.

Anerlich, I agree - “we” just can’t be WCK; “we” have to be martial artists looking for truth in martial arts to really be Functional Martial arts.

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[QUOTE=HumbleWCGuy;933951]Towards the end of his life he was pretty sure that WC was ineffective. Citing Bruce Lee as an authority on certain topics also leaves you vulnerable to his criticisms.[/QUOTE]
You are so wrong. Bruce didn’t want to teach WC. He wanted to keep it within a small circle. He even said that it wasn’t for outsiders.

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[QUOTE=Phil Redmond;934237]You are so wrong. Bruce didn’t want to teach WC. He wanted to keep it within a small circle. He even said that it wasn’t for outsiders.[/QUOTE]

Why Did Bruce only want to keep the Authenic WC within a small circle?

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[QUOTE=Phil Redmond;934237]You are so wrong. Bruce didn’t want to teach WC. He wanted to keep it within a small circle. He even said that it wasn’t for outsiders.[/QUOTE]
Is that why he didn’t teach the Chinese Ted Wong Trapping…because he was an outsider?

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Robert,

BL got a lot from many books, and trust me when I tell you that I’ve read everything I can get my hands on for well over 30 years now - so you’re not alone on this.

But the point is that BL could put these moves into action - as his movies clearly indicate - as well as first hand accounts from people like Inosanto, Richard Bustillo, Ted Wong, Joe Lewis, and the rest.

Go back and watch the fight in the Roman colliseum with Chuck Norris in “Return of the Dragon” for one. Or the fight with Kareem Abdul Jabbar in “Game of Death”.

The man knew what he was doing, clearly.

As for “light touch” sparring - this may be true in some instances (ie.- Joe Lewis, for example)…but not in others. Inosanto was quite specific as to what happened behind-closed-doors with Chuck Norris.

…

And speaking of Joe Lewis (a proven full contact heavyweight fighter in his day)…he was so impressed with BL’s 5 angles of attack that he himself wrote numerous articles about them in the mid-late 1970’s that appeared in various magazines (ie.- Black belt, Inside Kung Fu, etc.)…

wherein he took BL’s words and concepts and tried to pass them off as his own (I still have some of these articles/magazines archived at home).

AGAIN: The fact is, Bruce Lee was an excellent fighter.

And all the hype (mostly his own doing) that went far beyond the call does not change that.

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[QUOTE=HumbleWCGuy;934272]Is that why he didn’t teach the Chinese Ted Wong Trapping…because he was an outsider?[/QUOTE]

Here is Ted doing trapping:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HhIYRzyZhps
Supposedly, according to the video, from JKD, so…if he didn’t learn it from BL, where did he learn trapping in JKD ?
An honest question since I don’t know much about Ted at all.

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Have met Ted Wong when I took my Instructor Grade Level 10 (Gold Sash) test under William Cheung in 1990 - and Ted Wong was there as one of the guests-of-honor for the weekend.

This took place at a hotel in Boulder, Colorado over a Saturday and Sunday - with about 100 participants in the William Cheung seminars and the Saturday night banquet (and Ted Wong sat next to William Cheung while I took my test with two other folks on Saturday afternoon after that day’s seminar).

And the JKD demo he did at the banquet that night was terrific, as I recall.

Ted learned his “trapping” from Bruce, as I recall him saying during an impromptu conversation with a bunch of guys after his demo.

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Let’s see BL’s great ideas? Nope, most of the Tao of JKD is plagarized notes from other books. Nothing original there.

The “famous people” that BL trained with like Gene LeBell and Wally Jay? Said he was a great athlete but shallow as a MA.

The Chinese Masters? All couldn’t stand him, BL talked poorly about all of them. The “challenge” had nothing to do with him teaching non-chinese people, that is just marketing hype.

Bruce studied WC for about 3 yrs before coming to the US. He never learned things on a deeper level because of his attitude and personality. BL is only famous because of his movies.

Everything about him is just propaganda and Hollywood hype.

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Yea The only reason he has so much hype is because of Hollywood…so true…Alot people do not want to face up to this truth!

[QUOTE=Kevin73;934308]Let’s see BL’s great ideas? Nope, most of the Tao of JKD is plagarized notes from other books. Nothing original there.

The “famous people” that BL trained with like Gene LeBell and Wally Jay? Said he was a great athlete but shallow as a MA.

The Chinese Masters? All couldn’t stand him, BL talked poorly about all of them. The “challenge” had nothing to do with him teaching non-chinese people, that is just marketing hype.

Bruce studied WC for about 3 yrs before coming to the US. He never learned things on a deeper level because of his attitude and personality. BL is only famous because of his movies.

Everything about him is just propaganda and Hollywood hype.[/QUOTE]

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Bruve Lee

[QUOTE=HumbleWCGuy;933951]Towards the end of his life he was pretty sure that WC was ineffective. Citing Bruce Lee as an authority on certain topics also leaves you vulnerable to his criticisms.[/QUOTE]

What criticism? he moved away from HK and added things to what he learned in wc.He retained his wing chun for his own use. His recognition of the role of conditioning after the Wong Jack man encounter was not misplaced.IMO FWIW- not an issue of authority- but of respect and recognition of his role in bringing attention to kung fu in the US. I got started in wing chun because I happened to live in Tucson at that time and before I saw a BL movie and my sifu was doing wing chun there.Enter the Dragon had not yet come to that town. When I did see BL movies I was impressed with his agility and athleticism- though I thought his altercation with a black boxer in one alley scene was hokey from a boxing POV. He wasn’t in wing chun long enough to become a teaching authority in wing chun. He acknowledged his debt to wing chun for his foundations and “jeet” was and remains a wing chun function. If he had been around WSL and IM longer IMO he would have done more wing chun.Good foundation in wing chun allows you to adapt and that’s what BL did after moving away from his HK wing chun training.Look past the name dropping after his death. Let him RIP.

joy chaudhuri

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[QUOTE=Yoshiyahu;934264]Why Did Bruce only want to keep the Authenic WC within a small circle?[/QUOTE]
I have no clue. I just happen to have seen a letter written by BL saying that.

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[QUOTE=Phil Redmond;934371]I have no clue. I just happen to have seen a letter written by BL saying that.[/QUOTE]

I had never heard that in reference to his WC. I have read that BL said his JKD wasn’t for everyone and that one about 1 in 10,000 could do it.

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[QUOTE=Kevin73;934374]I had never heard that in reference to his WC. I have read that BL said his JKD wasn’t for everyone and that one about 1 in 10,000 could do it.[/QUOTE]

Did Bruce Lee write that in one of his books?

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[QUOTE=Kevin73;934374]I had never heard that in reference to his WC. I have read that BL said his JKD wasn’t for everyone and that one about 1 in 10,000 could do it.[/QUOTE]

I think it was HIS version of JKD was HIS and that only 1 in 10k would be able to do it…I think the point he was trying to make is that JKD must be tailored to the individual and that “Bob’s” JKD won’t be “Tony’s”.

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[QUOTE=Yoshiyahu;934593]Did Bruce Lee write that in one of his books?[/QUOTE]

Yes, here is the exact quote:

“Of my art–gung fu and jeet kune do–only one of 10,000 can handle it. It is martial art. Complete offensive attacks. It is silly to think that almost anyone can learn it. It isn’t really contemporary forms of the art I teach. Mainly that which I work with–martial attack. It is really a smooth rhythmic expression of smashing the guy before he hits you, with any method available.” -page 59 of Jeet Kune Do Bruce Lee’s Commentaries on the Martial Way.

Why would he only limit to “his JKD”, that goes against everything that he said. There should be NO ONE doing “his JKD”. I think he thought that the whole idea of JKD was limited to a few people in the martial arts that had the physical talent and mental ability.

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Did Bruce Lee write that in one of his books?

Yeah, the tao of jeet kune do, have you heard of it? :smiley:

I think it was HIS version of JKD was HIS and that only 1 in 10k would be able to do it…I think the point he was trying to make is that JKD must be tailored to the individual and that “Bob’s” JKD won’t be “Tony’s”.

Could be, but he was also kinda arrogant at times, judging from interviews and the like, and he might’ve meant that most people were either too dumb or physically incapable :slight_smile: