Did anyone ever wonder what or why did Bruce Lee felt like he needed modify Wing Chun into JKD? I wonder, what was so lacking in Wing Chun (besides Chin Na and boxing footwork) that needed a big improvement? Just because he lost some fights? And when he concocted the JKD philosophy, suddenly it was the opposite? I just think it’s because he trained harder. And even refining Wing Chun into JKD, I always found his methods of fighting almost similar, except the inclusion of footwork. So what was so terribe about Wing Chun that drove this remarkable man insane? lol. Thanks.
#1 pre determined responses. #2 lack of fluid motion.
just guessing
You have to understand, Bruce Lee was practicing Wing Chun before they improved the spelling and found all that traditional ground fighting in it. You would have left too.
Also, since Bruce didn’t have someone the callibre of an Emin Bozteppe or William Chung in the US to practice with, he had to go out and actually fight other stylists(non-wing chun- imagine!), which was clearly dissappointing, as that’s clearly not what wing chun’s about, no matter how you spell it.
Mind you, his behavior was deplorable, not dignified at all times like the grandmasters of today. Thankfully, with his death, wing chun teachers were finally able to get out from under that shadow of his that kept people out of wing chun schools due to his terrible martial arts and bad conduct, and really begin to show wing chun as not only a semantical art, but a great opportunity for a spectacle in both the US and Germany.
kc – you smartass. 
it’s only funny cause it’s true.
on the other hand, things such as footwork and chin na are plentiful in wing chun. bruce wasn’t a student of wing chun for very long and, thus, came nowhere near completing the system. if there was one thing he should have criticized wing chun for not teaching him, it would have been to stay out of trouble so he could remain in hong kong to complete his training.
bruce lee was good and fast at what he did because he did train hard – very hard. however, to criticize something as lacking when you haven’t seen it all is presumptive at best.
BL felt that WC was lacking in finishing power due to its lack of full body rotation when delivering strikes. One of the things he incorporated into his fighting was the power that comes with the rotational biomechanics of western boxing and Muay Thai. He also felt that boxing slips, bobs and weaves were a superior method for avoiding punches and utilizing feinting and other set-ups.
Originally posted by KC Elbows
Mind you, his behavior was deplorable, not dignified at all times like the grandmasters of today. Thankfully, with his death, wing chun teachers were finally able to get out from under that shadow of his that kept people out of wing chun schools due to his terrible martial arts and bad conduct, and really begin to show wing chun as not only a semantical art, but a great opportunity for a spectacle in both the US and Germany.
That’s kinda cynnical, his death contributed to a great cause? I dont think he was only saying inefficiency just in Wing Chun, but also other systems as well, that’s why he wanted to amalgam as much as possible. Like he said, it’s form of fighting of no forms. My question was just to know why he was unfullfilled, but I guess that about answers it. But he did know what he was talking about concerning Wing Chun’s good methods of fighting. But as a process, nonentheless, he accidentally not only popularized kung fu, but other MAs as well. And at least his theory of JKD worked for him very well anyway.
But on a further note, there are some contradictions among the responses here 
Originally posted by KC Elbows
[B]You have to understand, Bruce Lee was practicing Wing Chun before they improved the spelling and found all that traditional ground fighting in it. You would have left too.
Also, since Bruce didn’t have someone the callibre of an Emin Bozteppe or William Chung in the US to practice with, he had to go out and actually fight other stylists(non-wing chun- imagine!), which was clearly dissappointing, as that’s clearly not what wing chun’s about, no matter how you spell it.
Mind you, his behavior was deplorable, not dignified at all times like the grandmasters of today. Thankfully, with his death, wing chun teachers were finally able to get out from under that shadow of his that kept people out of wing chun schools due to his terrible martial arts and bad conduct, and really begin to show wing chun as not only a semantical art, but a great opportunity for a spectacle in both the US and Germany. [/B]
Bloody beautiful.
I nominate this for Post Of The Year thus far.
Geee everyone here hates Bruce Lee, -_- pathetic really. He’s a man who was no more perfect than anyone else. But at least he was striving for something, I’d nominate his ego.
Get over your obsession.
You know, I have due feelings for Burce.
To this very day, I think that what he did for martial arts within martial arts is bad. Yet what he did in the films were good. Confused ? Yeah. But too.
What I mean is that the fact that he was able to popularise CMA to the western world was a great contribution to chinese culture everywhere. And the idea that non-chinese people keeps getting kicked was a much needed ego-booster for the then-depressed chinese people. There, I believe that Bruce did something profound and worth calling a hero. Did he over-do the anti-foreign message a little ? I’d say so. But hey, those were different times. And people flocked to the cinemas for his whole package. So as far as the actual people who invested in the films are concerned, who cares ?
However, the fact that Bruce didn’t study the arts much and then thought up alot of the JKD principle and philosophy and then claim it as his own creation was something that rubbed me. If we read up on some of the books that were published in the 40s to 60s, and some of the “principle poems” from the old times, we will find that we will find that there really isn’t much that is original in Bruce Lee’s work. Note, I am not saying that Bruce didn’t come up with them by himself. I believe that he did indeed discovered them independently. And true, what he wrote did carry a very strong western philosophical flavour in his style of writting and the linkage between premises that makes it very different on terms of structuring the statement, but the fact that he never went back and read up on the past knowledge and then selling it as his own work makes the world see those principles as being Bruce’s own and no one else’s. Besides, I think that looking from a philosophical point of view, he has alot of things that contradicts himself.
Alot of the masters from the last generations in Hong Kong hated Bruce because of this. Yet, here is where the pethetic part comes in, in order to gain fame for their own school, half of them came up with all sorts of lies to associate themselves with him. Such as pointing out some of the techniques Bruce “learnt from them” and saying how much of a pals them were. I find it kinda comforting that this rave died down for the past decade or two.
rubthebuddha
bruce lee was good and fast at what he did because he did train hard – very hard. however, to criticize something as lacking when you haven’t seen it all is presumptive at best.
Agree 100%!
greendragon states:
#1 pre determined responses
Not sure what style of Wing Chun you are speaking about, non that I am aware of. Just my opinion, that is the beauty of Wing Chun…the lack of pre-determined responses. 
greendragon
#2 lack of fluid motion.
Again, not sure what Wing Chun system you are speaking about. Wing Chun as I know it is as fluid, if not more fluid than any other art I have seen or studied. Again, just my two cents.
I completely agree with RTB and azwingchun:
- When you haven’t seen everything, it is perfectly normal to feel like something is missing. Wing Chun IS a complete fighting system, you just have to learn all of it ;).
- Fluid motions and lack of pre-determined responses are just two of Wing Chun’s many beautiful characteristics. (Now, before someone shoots me repeatedly in the head :D, I’m not saying this is limited exclusively to WC).
Hopefully this is the last we’ll see of this subject, but I think a see a young martial artist wannabe somewhere in the near future thinking of this same question …
I find it ironic that Bruce Lee is held up as a saviour of Chinese martial arts when he modified the traditional styles he had learnt by adding in elements of Western fencing, boxing and wrestling.
Mybe he modified his WC because he had trouble making it work aginst Western fighters?
Of course I doubt he learnt the whole “complete” system, but people who lose fights using these arts never have, have they?
Hmmm
someone said earlier that they thoght the reason he did it was because there was something lacking in Wing Chun, me myself, I feel Bruce Lee modified it because there was something lacking in himself.
I have always considered his phrase of “classical mess” as being one bourne out of ignorance more than enlightenment. Sure I suspect there isn’t a single perfect art around but considering the small amount of time he spent with Yip Man, I think Bruce was a little overblown to make such a statement. Although many have benefitted from what Bruce has introduced the world to, I don’t rate it as mind blowing or that original. Maybe his role was more of a cultural interpreter of principles and ideas within the world of martial arts to the western world. I have never felt he was some grand innovator, and I believe if he didn’t create JKD, someone else would of, or more clser to the truth already had under a different name and guise.
Did Yip Man teach groundfighting?
Wing Chun and all kung fu styles are totally complete. Bruce Lee was a no talent hack. All you need is kung fu. Don’t worry about testing it in a realitsic manner against other styles and combat sports. It’d be too deadly or there’d be too many rules for that anyway.
RM:
I have always considered his phrase of “classical mess” as being one bourne out of ignorance more than enlightenment.
How long does it take to figure out something is not the most efficient/effective way? Do you need to try to hammer a square peg into a round whole for several hours before concluding that there is something inherently wrong with the materials?
I’m not one to elevate Lee to god-like status or anything like that, but I do think it’s illogical to claim that someone has to complete a system to justify criticizing it for its faults.
If you walk into a school that only practices point sparring, for example, because the techniques are “too deadly to execute at full speed,” then it would be fair to criticize this without first earning your black belt or whatever at that school.
I think “classical mess” is a good descriptor of many of the arts that have gotten fatter and fatter over time by lazily adding more forms instead of more depth.
Originally posted by quiet man
[B]
- When you haven’t seen everything, it is perfectly normal to feel like something is missing. Wing Chun IS a complete fighting system, you just have to learn all of it ;).[/B]
…and how do you know WC is a complete system? How long have you trained WC? Have you seen it all?
KC Elbows,
I printed your post out and hung it over my desk. Beautiful!