How to beat a Wing Chunner

This comes from the “Martial Arts Mastery” E-zine. Hidden Secrets of Martial Arts
#################################################
How to Defeat a Wing Chun Artist

Don’t Play the Attacker’s Game!

We hear this all the time – now. I remember when
only a few people, like Steve Golden, were offering
this sound piece of advice.

As I said, we hear it all of the time. So, why do
so few of us follow this sagely advice?

Because it takes work – you have to practice defeating
other styles, while avoiding their pet techniques.

This isn’t as hard as it sounds, especially when you
go against someone who is bound to their system – more
on this in a minute.

So, here are a couple of tips for taking on a
wing chun artist:

  1. Inside-Outside Hands

Many of the novice to intermediate ‘wing chunners’ don’t
like being on the inside with their hands. And even some
of the more advanced artists work their hands to an
outside position automatically.

Once they make contact with you, don’t be surprised if
they use the other hand as a check while the first hand
gets a ‘better’ (in their opinion) position.

This a great opportunity for you to surprise them.

Catch the wing shun artist as he or she makes a
change – especially if the practitioner breaks contact
and leaves an opening to the body.

  1. Beat On the Hands and Arms

Long ago, before Dan Inosanto disassociated himself
from his fellow Bruce Lee students, he use to come to
Eugene to give seminars.

At his first seminar, he told me/us “you wouldn’t be afraid
to fight Mohammed Ali, if he didn’t have any hands, feet,
arms, or legs, right?”

Dan’s tactic was to beat on anything that invaded your
personal body bubble. If a punch came in, you beat
the punch with a solid phoenix eye (knuckle strike).

A side kick racing at you was the perfect excuse to
take out your opponent’s shin shin.

Use this against a ‘wing chunner.’ A wing chun artist
loves contact – his or her wrists touching yours.

Why don’t you make your opponent ‘gun shy,’ so to speak.
Start pounding on hands, forearms, and wrists. Make them
afraid to reach in for contact.

  1. And speaking of Wrists …

On more than one occasion, I have heard wing chun
practitioners say, “we don’t do wrist locks in
our system.”

Perfect !!!

Remember, at the beginning of the article, I talked
about folks being “bound to their system?”

Well, here you go.

Just because they don’t practice wrist and joint
locks, doesn’t mean we can’t 'practice some of our
locks on them." [Giggle, giggle]

Which locks work best?

Glad you asked.

If you ever find yourself rolling with a wing chun
artist in chi sao (sticky hands), don’t play the wing
chunner’s game.

On the hand that is rotating, try either the Basic
Lock when you see the hand open up (tan sao), or try
a Double Ninety (see ‘Wrist Locks’) if you see the
rotating hand go into a bent-arm position (bong sao).

If you are new to chi sao, my advice would be to avoid
locking the fook sao hand. Your opponent’s wrist rests
on top of yours.

This fook-sao hand just tracks. As a beginner, you
probably won’t be able to effect a lock before the
hand finds an opening to your body.

Stick with the rotating hand.

And remember, don’t play the other guy’s game.
########################################

Goes back to what I was saying in another thread abouth how JKD people always think they know more about our system than we do. Where does the JKD crowd get all theses crappy WC people anyway? Do they ever cross hands with someone with more than a couple of years of experience? I doubt it.

sounds interesting buddy

But why single out wing chun? Those techniques u just described “could” work on anyone or not. Depends on who yor fighting. And it isnt easy to “Pheonix eye fist” somone’s punch. That takes a little hand eye coordination and some hand conditioning. Hitting the other person’s limbs isnt an amazingly new idea. Sorry to diss on Dan Inosanto and his “new idea.” I’ve been told this many times before…and I study wing chun! Everything u listed that can be done on a wing chunner is hypothetical! Anything can be done on anyone in theory.

  1. Hard to hit through if strong bridge is maintained,even during jau sau (rolling gates).

  2. Make them afraid to ‘reach’ for contact.
    I NEVER ‘REACH’ for contact.

As fgpanzerz stated limb destruction is not a ‘new’ idea.

JKD can spend it’s time ‘chasing’ hands. I’d rather hit the face or body.

  1. We don’t practice joint manipulation??? News to me.

Fook sau hand ‘just tracks’… No it doesn’t.

as you say, they must’ve met some pretty novice practitioners.

The real way to defeat a wing chun practitioner?

Ask him about his lineage and watch him argue himself to death

:smiley: :smiley: :wink: :smiley: :smiley:

regards

Dave F

fgxpanzerz-

if you had actually read the article you would know I did not write it or did you just miss my comments at the bottome of the post? Also, I would guess they singled out WCK because they are JKD.

Dave-

shhhhh- don’t let our secret weakness out! Everyone knows we’d much rather fight amongst ourselves anyway…:smiley:

LOL! Funny stuff!

Rgds,

RR

perfect example of pathetic stereotyping.

and how does it happen? taking a few uninformed opinions as gospel. fine, go ahead and chase my hands – you’ll just wind up back at your face, because that’s right where my hands are going. :rolleyes:

Bah!..You want to know?..All these great suggestions may work on the “trapping” type of Wing Chun only! :wink:

Well, in my teacher’s WC we have bad-ass wrist locks. So there.
-FJ

I had a student once that San SHou’d a JKD fella. His coach stated that he should stay away from the WCer(my Student) because we were short range, so he couldn’t be reached. I heard this and told my student what was said. Then I told my student to prove him wrong. He did. The JKD guy tried to stay away, but my student using his Long Range WC skills was on him all the time. The JKD guy didn’t know how to react and therefore lost the bout.
I guess many people so don’t know what we are about!!!

response

what a load of crap

Just the other day we were practicing basic chi-na and locks.

me too.
I usually do at least on lock when im training

I’d personally just be happy to hear a JKD guy admit that Bruce’s little sayings & philosophies were mostly WCK idioms he learned from his brothers& teachers in the Yip Man family.

i’d like to hear a jkd guy admit that bruce created jkd because ip man wouldn’t teach him the rest of the wing chun system.

Its never going to happen tho:(

good one ish. Ya know I enjoyed Bruce’s movies as a kid but I’ve realized that if he were still alive he’d be the “Fat Elvis” of martial arts.

Just so you guys know, I get this letter too, and I emailed him asking him to clarify. I told him I was a new student but that some o fthe things he talked about just didnt seem to fit with Wing Chun. Anyway, he emailed back and had some pretty good responses. It turns out he is a WC guy, and he just didnt have the room to fully explain the concepts.

Ya know I enjoyed Bruce’s movies as a kid but i’ve realised that if he were still alive he’d be the “Fat Elvis” of martial arts.

absolute classic!!!

Regards

Dave F.

Bruce Lee

I for one think that most people here should be thanking Bruce Lee for what he has done for you. It was Bruce Lee who fought for the right to teach non-chinese people martial arts. If he had not done this how many of you would actually be training in Wing Chun right now.

To the best of my knowledge Ip Man did not refuse to teach Bruce the rest of the WC system, but refused to let Bruce record the Bil jee form and the dummy set so he could learn them in the states. If i am wrong about this then please let me know but as far as i know this is some form of the truth.

And i as a JKD guy can say that a lot of what Bruce Lee was teaching came from Wing Chun and No-one will ever know what he might have been doing had he had more time to train with Ip Man and WSL in Hong Kong.

Damian

sounds reasonable to me stumpydee, may I ask you a question? this is a sincere question and not a jab, but do you as a jkd guy see jkd as a ‘crystalization’ of Mr. Lees ideas?

Hello Stumpydee

my family is from Belfast and Londenderry greetings!

I for one think that most people here should be thanking Bruce Lee for what he has done for you. It was Bruce Lee who fought for the right to teach non-chinese people martial arts. If he had not done this how many of you would actually be training in Wing Chun right now.

I really get tired of hearing this because it’s a myth made up by the Bruce Lee legend machine and it’s an insult to the Chinese who were already in this country and teaching non-Asians. Bruce Lee was a man for his times but we have the luxury of having 20-20 hindsight and as such we realize the truths behind the legend. It’s time to stop passing on the myth of Bruce Lee’s great altruism and begin to realize he was just a dude who couldn’t make money in America as Cha Cha king, couldn’t buy Yip Man into moving to California or allowing him to film the WC forms.

Bruce looked good on film but his Wing Chun was second rate. I think the mpeg of him chasing hands and calling it Chi Sao that was floating around here a while ago was a pretty good example. To me Bruce was no different than say Joe Son and his JoeSon-Do style anther 20 something grandmaster with all the answers.