Anyone know who met Leung Bik in Hong Kong other than Yip Man?
And more importantly, what year was it that they met him?
Good question.
Only thing I have been able to find on that… is someone named Lai who was supposedly a friend of Yip Man in St. Stephen’s. Apparently it was Lai’s father who owned the silk factory where Leung Bik (apparently was in his 50’s at the time) worked. So I would guess somewhere between 1909 (if you go by the story that Yip Man was 16 when he started attending St. Stephen’s and that he was born in 1893 as his sons say on their sites) and not too sure when Yip Man was said to have left St. Stephen’s maybe 19 years old so that would be 1912?
I am guessing as I haven’t heard or found anything other than that so far.
NTC mentioned about hearing some of Yip Man’s students talking about meeting Leung Bik, but it was quite some time ago and was going to get some clarification on it.
Regards,
Vicky
Yip Man might have been born in 1899. There seems to be some disagreement about the exact date, and it varied a bit among his students articles until Yip Chun published 1893, but strangely many from other branches pegged it at 1899, and all the people who were supposedly the exact same age as Yip Man (Lai Hip-Chi, Cheung Bo, and a couple others) were born in 1899.
Not sure it matters much, but could push his time at St. Stephen’s back up to 6 years.
BTW- I think Augustine Fong’s site has a story about Leung Bik teaching his daughter and/or son and law as well.
The story has it that Leung Bik’s daughter in law was very good in kicking and was a better kicker than the young Ip man.
We keep trying to impose contemporary biography analysis
with respect to Ip Man. Frankly, I find it amusing. We accept the
awesome nature of Ip man’s wing chun- his thoughts and statements about the motions and forms- but we think that we know better as to who Ip man learned from than Ip Man himself.
Hey Joy,
If we look at it without bias, we have no idea what Yip Man said, as some of his students maintain one thing (ie. William Cheung) and others maintain another (ie. Wang Kiu), since as you yourself have said many times, the principals are long gone, we cannot know for certain what, if anything Yip Man said, so no one is pretending to know better than Yip Man, just trying to figure out the inconsistent reports.
Originally posted by reneritchie
BTW- I think Augustine Fong’s site has a story about Leung Bik teaching his daughter and/or son and law as well.
Yes you are right, I used a quote from it in one of my other posts.
Originally posted by reneritchie
[B]Yip Man might have been born in 1899. There seems to be some disagreement about the exact date, and it varied a bit among his students articles until Yip Chun published 1893, but strangely many from other branches pegged it at 1899, and all the people who were supposedly the exact same age as Yip Man (Lai Hip-Chi, Cheung Bo, and a couple others) were born in 1899.
Not sure it matters much, but could push his time at St. Stephen’s back up to 6 years. [/B]
Yeah, there are discrepencies, and I think it does matter when we are trying to pin down a time period, don’t you, lol. Makes it that much harder to figure out if it is even possible to figure it out.
Vicky
Originally posted by reneritchie
[B]Hey Joy,
If we look at it without bias, we have no idea what Yip Man said, as some of his students maintain one thing (ie. William Cheung) and others maintain another (ie. Wang Kiu), since as you yourself have said many times, the principals are long gone, we cannot know for certain what, if anything Yip Man said, so no one is pretending to know better than Yip Man, just trying to figure out the inconsistent reports. [/B]
I agree.
BTW anyone heard from NTC lately?
Vicky
If I told you my Sifu met him several times between 1963-1967, would you believe me?
If I told you my Sifu and my SiBak, Ip Ching, helped bury him in 1968, would you believe me?
If I told you my Sifu and my SiBak, Ip Ching, took me to his grave to pay our respects in 1997, would you believe me?
If I told you that Leung Bik was the man’s nickname and not his real name, would you believe me?
If I told you he was a student of Fong Wah and not Leung Jan’s son, would you believe me?
And, if I told you that Yip Man really learned his skill from his SiHings, SiDai, ToDai, SiBaks, SiSuks, SiJats, etc., and mostly from within himself through sheer force of will, then gave the credit to his Sifu because he would have never met any of them if not for his Sifu, would you believe me?
:eek:
No I wouldn’t, Tom, because I heard Leung Bik was still alive and well in China, 75 years old, and still taking his bird to the park every day. Perhaps you and your sifu and Yip Ching met him in New York when he was there giving his seminar in 1997? 
not to mention all those accounts, including yip chings account, of him being an old man (some say in his 50’s) when Yip Man attended St. Stephen’s and met him in the early 1900’s. Around 1910 according to Yip Ching’s account as told by Ron Heimberger.
Vicky
Vicki,
These folks in NYC claim those were all lies made up because Yip Man was much younger than Leung Bik and was ashamed to admit learning from a kid.
(BTW- I don’t happen to find this very credible, but it is a great example of “sifu sez”)
Originally posted by reneritchie
[B]Vicki,
These folks in NYC claim those were all lies made up because Yip Man was much younger than Leung Bik and was ashamed to admit learning from a kid.
(BTW- I don’t happen to find this very credible, but it is a great example of “sifu sez”) [/B]
Rene,
Have you come across anything showing that the seminar took place? I mean we have a lot of avid WC people from NYC on here. 1997 wasn’t that long ago, someone must have heard or seen something about it. My guess is if Leung Bik, the one that we are talking about, (maybe it was a different Leung Bik they saw LOL) came to do a seminar MANY people would have known about it and would have wanted to make a point to be there.
I agree with you about the example.
Vicky
btw it is with a y not an i lol not that it matters as my french grandmother insisted I spelled it wrong anyway and it should have been with an ie, and so that is how she spelled it, can’t argue with your grandmother lol.
Sorry, my bad spelling! Je m’excuse!
I’ve never heard anything beyond this one group that the Leung Bik seminar happened, and never from one of them who actually met the man, only who were told he was there.
I agree with you on people knowing about it. Sum Nung was in NYC in 1997, and I’ve found numerous people who actually met him at the time.
Originally posted by Tom Kagan
And, if I told you that Yip Man really learned his skill from his SiHings, SiDai, ToDai, SiBaks, SiSuks, SiJats, etc., and mostly from within himself through sheer force of will, then gave the credit to his Sifu because he would have never met any of them if not for his Sifu, would you believe me?
If you said it, it would have little impact on my believing it. For most who honestly examine how they themselves and those around them learn and develop, this should not be a difficult pill to swallow.
Unknowns will always remain, but perhaps not such mysterious ones if myths can be set aside long enough to consider human natures and day-to-day life.
FWIW, I continuously enjoy your posts, both for style and thought value.
Regards,
- kj
WCis4me,
not to mention all those accounts, including yip chings account, of him being an old man (some say in his 50’s) when Yip Man attended St. Stephen’s and met him in the early 1900’s. Around 1910 according to Yip Ching’s account as told by Ron Heimberger.
If I were to say those things, you might be right, if were to claim that Leung Bik, son of Leung Jan and the Leung Bik that a few of Yip Man’s students say they met were the same person.
How is Ip Ching’s story of Leung Jan’s son (who may have died before Ip Ching was born depending on who you believe), as retold by Ron Heimberger - who was helped in his translations by Ip Ching’s son who is now 16(?) - found on a website and published in a wonderful book paying great homage to his father be any more or less credible than Moy Yat’s story of a man (who happened to know Ving Tsun and Yip Man visited roughly six times a year after the man moved from China to the New Territories in 1953) who had a nickname he and Yip Man picked just to have fun with some students, as retold by me - heard by me from Moy Yat who spoke excellent English - found right here on this website, and taken from an interview Moy Yat gave to a martial art magazine published in Spain a few years back?
That is, if I were to say those things, that’s what I would be wondering. (Of course, if I were to say it, I’d try to figure out a better way to make the above paragraph into more than one sentence) 
Rene, the bird was a canary. Unfortunately, Leung Bik never was able to get her to sing. <LOL>
Kathy Joe, thank you. Though we haven’t met outside of cyberspace, I am impressed by and enjoy your expression of Ving Tsun “Tongue Fu”, too.
What Tom’s not saying is very interesting. One anonymous poster on the former VTAA board claimed there was a HFY sifu in the NT. Maybe something for Victor and Chango to chace down?
LOL Tom!!! What you are not saying was really hard to read, but very interesting, if you even wrote it.
You made an excellent point if it wasn’t for the fact that you said when you weren’t saying anything that, you, Moy Yat and Yip Ching were all together to pay your respects in 1997 if you ever told anyone that, and therefore Yip Ching would have had to agree with the fact that was Leung Biks grave, and that he helped to bury him many years earlier and that their was some conspiracy in the translation of what he said, in the book of great homage to his father, by his own son and student.
All this of course if in fact Leung Bik ever did die and if it was the same Leung Bik, and the same Moy Yat, and the same Yip Ching, and the same you. Now if you were to say that you were there and Yip Ching did confirm what Moy Yat may or may not have said to you or a magazine at some time in the past or future, we would all have to wonder how so many of the mainstream and not so mainstream students and non students of Yip Man were retelling the same story, unless of course they all learned it from Yip Ching in the 60’s many years after some of them had started their own schools and despite that Yip Man was still their teacher with whom they could confer with regarding the matter.
Of course IF you ever told us something like that then we would have to wonder why you didn’t see Leung Bik in person in NYC before or after visiting his gravesite while he was conducting a seminar to which many other credible or not so credible people may or may not have heard of.
Of course you didn’t say anything like that so it really is a mute point just like the canary.
Not to mention that I may or may not tell you that I am the keeper of the secret scrolls and do know the ultimate truth.
If I were to say that, I might also say that the truth is, and you can prove it by combining all our resources, then upon peer review, find that the true history of Leung Bik is as follows:
Leung Bik (his alias, if we tell you his real name we will have to kill you) was born in the mid 1800’s.
He may have had a father named Leung Jan or maybe not.
He moved to HK after having a falling out with another person who may or may not be Chan Wah Shun for peeking in his windows.
He was in HK in the early 1900’s and taught kung fu while working at a silk factory and living on a fishing boat.
His daughter-in-law beat up a great kung fu master from secrets that he had taught her.
He faked his death at approximately 110 years old in 1968 so that people wouldn’t know any of his true secrets that he passed on to some kid he met from St. Stephen’s college. As he had an ultimate plan to out his secrets at a seminar in NYC.
He then taught in secret until 1997(he was approximately 137 years old and yes that person on the subway looking scary yesterday may or may not have been his top student) when he decided to come out of retirement in NYC to do a seminar, that was the plan all along, to reveal the secrets of wc and possibly name a successor. Unfortunately, no one attended (bad P.R. person) (or if they did tell you about it then they would have to kill you.)
William Cheung was also in NYC in 1997 (coincidence I think not!!!)
Moy Yat (if that’s his real name and if we told you we would have to kill you) and Yip Ching(you know the drill) decided to take a student, who hasn’t said anything about any of this to any internet forums, to the graveside to cover the fact that he faked his death and might have been seen in NYC so that everyone would once again believe that he was in fact dead and the secrets would once again be protected (whew).
Leung Bik then went back to china to live in a park with his mute canary where he is to this day (approx 143 years old and whoever says practicing WC doesn’t promote longevity knows better now).
All the dates have been changed or distorted through the ages in an effort to protect the secrets.
That is, if you can prove the true history of Leung Bik by combining all our sources, upon peer review, and if I were to say that is what the truth is, which I/we haven’t.
disclaimer
If I was going to make a disclaimer this is what it would say:
This entire post was written tongue-in-cheek with no disrespect intended towards any lineage, claim, person, or history. If you don’t get that then you will instantly lose all of your MA skills and spontaneously combust in the next 30 seconds, according to the legend of the 40 masters of the secret letting water flow under the bridge, while floating on a red boat, singing like a canary, scrolls.
Is This The Old Man Tom Kagan is talking About
Although Yip Man believed that wing chun began in the Shaolin Temple, many of his followers have since discounted the story. Still, Britishborn wing chun expert Alan Lamb points out that during the years he lived in Hong Kong, he sought out an elderly kung fu master named Wong Wan Chin. Wong had spent some time at the Shaolin Temple in his youth, well before World War 11. And, Lamb insisted that the movements from the three wing chun forms-sil lum tao, chum kui, and bil gee- were all contained within the more elaborate Shaolin forms that Wong had learned at the temple, a fact which seems to reinforce Yip Man’s original explanation.)
Wong Wan Chin is that him ?
http://www.cheungswingchun.com/Articles/Article.WCS.2.html