That’s got to be a weird situation, no matter what I think about Emin the guy worked his hind end off to promote his art here. Good luck with the GM that sounds very cool.
Do the Monkey with me!
Yeah. Emin was only interested in gettin press when he challenged Royce. He was offered to fight in UFC and a shot at 60,000 dollars but he turned it down. He was offered to fight in the gracie academy but he turned it down. He wsa offered to fight at the police station but he turned it down. He was offered to fight Royce at his seminars like he did Williajm Chueng but he turned it down.
If he didn’t want to fight then why did he challenge them in the first place? Plenty of people have fought the Gracie’s in challenge matches. Why did Emin have so much trouble showing up?
RTB, the split probably occured way before the official resignations. That’s why all those changes were being made earlier.
as far as the decisions on emin’s side, yeah, i’d say long before. gm leung ting’s decisions were made in july. i remember my instructor and other instructors scrambling to do what they could on behalf of sigung to keep the family together. but it seemed to lots of us that emin didn’t really have his heart in saving the family. gm leung and gm kernspecht both continued to make concessions and compromises, but emin didn’t give an inch to meet rules that every other sifu had to follow.
i know and experienced a bit more than was made public, and emin may have had some decent gripes with his sifu. but nothing excused his behavior or separation, in my opinion. but it’s his call. he can do what he wants, and i wish him the best in it, but i don’t personally agree with his choices.
Ralek and LEGEND…it’s obvious which side you’re on. I can’t be bothered to argue with you. Emin refused to fight in the UFC, he did not refuse a street fight; Rorion did.
The issue of Black Belt you’re talking about is the JULY issue of 1995. Both their sides of the stories are in there. I have the issue. Do you? Read it again. Maybe the passage of TIME (6 years!) has dulled your memories.
rubthebudha…you seem to make some valid poiints, but could it not be that Emin had already decided to leave BEFORE he wrote his resignation letter, and that all that crap had gone on for a while before it became public? If so, then the dates being a few days off may not be important. Anyways, either way i don’t really care, which is why i haven’t looked into it further. i know I’ll get to benefit from his training because he’s d@mn good, so I tend not to care much about politics happening half a world away (or about stuff that happened 6 years ago).
Ralek and LEGEND…it’s obvious which side you’re on. I can’t be bothered to argue with you.
“Comment like this especially from a NEW GUY who just started posting is ridiculous! I could care less about RORION and EMIN…I wish them the best of luck in teaching and making $$$. It has been a well known fact that the GRACIE in TORRANCE accepted challenge matches…all u had to do was show up…they video tape it…hmmmmmmmm…EMIN did the same at a WILLIAM CHEUNG seminar no??? It would have been no problem for him to drive down to TORRANCE and have a match up with ROYCE.”
So Emin wanted a street fight? Does that mean that Royce & Rorian could just jump him coming out of his house? Could they pack?
Emin wanting a “street fight” is moronic.
So, Emin turned down a $60,000 shot at a title in the UFC, during the earliest time frame, in which the rules were:
No biting
No eye gouging
No fish hooks
No time limits
Whereas Ron Van Clief, a 51 year old man, turned up to fight…
And Fred Ettish, who everybody picks on, had the guts to show up and put on an amazing display of fighting spirit despite being completely outclassed…
I’m sorry, but what a wuss.
I have no idea if he’s a good fighter or not, but what a wussy thing to do, ESPECIALLY if his mouth is as big as it seems to be.
Put up or shut up. That’s all I ask.
if someone has pictures of royce and rorion hiding in the bushes at emin’s house, i wanna see them! 
if someone has pictures of royce and rorion hiding in the bushes at emin’s house, i wanna see them!
There are no pictures of that, because the Gracies refused the streetfight challenge, remember? 
KenWingJitsu
and yes, I am not on Boztepe’s side. But I am not a Gracie guy either(prefer Machado). But they have never run from a challenge. Perhaps stacked the rules and scenario a bit to favor GJJ but then again you have to have some legal limits.
Just want to make sure I have your side of the story right. Emin Boztepe wanted a street fight. If so, why did he then refuse to fight a Gracie at a gym unless they provided legal assurances to the tune of financial restitution in the event of an arrest? He wants a publicized streetfight but won’t fight at a gym because he might get arrested for assault?? Interesting reasoning. You are also forgetting that Rorion refused a fight after twice offering to let Boztepe fight Royce, the UFC challenge. BTW, this is what Boztepe originally asked for. Later, he said he would only fight Rorion.
I’ve read both sides. Emin involves a lot of backpedaling and changing his complaints. The Gracies in my mind offered fair shots in multiple forums. He never made counteroffers(well he did one time say, Your dojo is a biased location. We could do it at my place.–hunh??) I have seen his stuff and think he’s probably a decent fighter but I am not impressed by some of his political BS. Plus the Gracies have backed up what they have claimed against all challengers(to Sakuraba’s finanical gain) So if you give me a choice between believing the Gracies were ducking a fight and Boztepe, I am going with Boztepe.
And does not fighting the Gracies make you a bad martial artist? No, of course not. But calling them out publicly and then ducking them is what angers so many outside the WT world.
As to why the WT can’t stand him, read above. I don’t know it well enough. But a leopeard always shows its spots.
Picture on the wall?
There should only be one picture on the wall: Yip Man. Every system has one recognized master..he was and is it. You can play offshoot system forever..if your ssytem traces to someone else than that is fine..if it decends from Yip Man, his pic should be the only one hanging.
As for Botzepe’s pic on the wall?!!! = EGO MAXIMUS + 100.
The guy may be tough but his knowledge and personal growth will suffer due to greed and because he feels he no longer has anything to learn. Sad..
Re: Picture on the wall?
Originally posted by Rolling Elbow
The guy may be tough but his knowledge and personal growth will suffer due to greed and because he feels he no longer has anything to learn. Sad..
Greed, right. That’s why most of the fees and what not were cut, some more than half in certain locations? I know my unlimited class fee went from $165 - $95 here in the NYC.
And perhaps it’s not that “he feels that he no longer has anything to learn,” but that he feels that his sifus no longer want to earnestly teach him. As in teach him objectively as teacher and student and not with politics involved.
i’d not be surprised if the drop in rates is just both sides trying to look good and using the same method. and as far as not having anything to learn? i don’t know about the pole form, but i’m pretty darn sure that he hasn’t been taught the knives. in addition, according to gm kernspecht’s response, emin didn’t want to pay for his lessons with him anymore. a sifu is a sifu, and just like any student, we should do our part to help them keep their doors open. i know that kernspecht is not running shy of cash these days, but every other sifu in europe pays their fees, so why shouldn’t emin?
again, not bashing the guy, only his behavior. very few sifus in the world would ask you how they look and laugh when you asked if they wanted complete honesty and told them they looked like shît (he had just finished about 16 hours of seminars in two days in alaska and had a really nasty case of jetlag). i was never one of his advanced students (i was just promoted to begin program 9 last night ), but that didn’t matter – he was friendly and casual with me. like i said, i like the guy. i just don’t think he made some good choices lately, and i think the way politics happened really fùcked everything in the wt family up.
know what i think? i think all the WT family, WC fam, VT fam, BJJ folk and maybe even a few other folks should all rent a huge, padded room and beat each other senseless with pipe insulation. the stuff is soft enough so it won’t hurt (it may stun you a smidge), but i think if all these hosers can get their aggressions out on each other and work themselves silly, then maybe go out for some guiness and drink it up like a good irishman would, it’d work itself out.
come on, you can see it now: william cheung and leung ting tossing darts with a pint in hand, emin and rorion and royce at the pool table playing a game of cutthroat (no, not with knives), maybe even viktor parlatti and andrew draheim playing drunken air hockey. cripes, guys, what a site this would be.
and the pictures! oh, the pictures!
back to reality
anyhoo, it all just sucks. the iwta lost a tremendous teacher and artist, and the awto lost i think around three-fourths of its student base and its four biggest schools. both organizations are each at a loss in their own ways, and i just think it’s poopy.
My last word on this is…go read the JULY 1995 issue of Black Belt and you’ll see who really refused a no rules street fight. It was supposed to be Rorion first, but he refused, saying he wanted Royce to fight because he was ‘retired’.
emin vs. gracie
having not been on the WT scene until well after emin and the gracies has their pis-sing matches, i’m not all that keen on the details. every attempt i have made to find more out usually gets me left with some bull****, one-sided person saying “emin’s a ***** because he didn’t fight” or “the gracies are all panzy-*****es because …”
what i’d like is something with substance that actually has something to offer. does anyone have any links they would suggest?
the same would also go for background on what led up to emin’s grand day out with william cheung.
Ah, yes…
Because, as we know, Black Belt magazine has only the highest journalistic standards and tip-top articles.
THis is a mag that put out an article on Comrhac Bas, I remind you, and published something about the “Hidden Grappling in TKD.”
Yup. Sounds like my new MA news source!!
havent read the whole thread,
Emin seems to be quite popular in scandinavia. Im not really interested. But all WC people seems to have an ego bigger than australia. Whats with the attitude fellow MA’s? calm down
LOL…this is getting silly…so EMIN wanted RORION not ROYCE…so when ROYCE was willing to step up to the plate…EMIN back down??? You know…the way this looks EMIN seems to like to fight older men don’t u think???