anyone care to explain?
Tai Chi is a martial art. Qigong is not. Both are practiced for health, and Qigong can be used to strengthen the body and strikes (though it is not a martial art, it doesn’t teach you how to fight.)
how exactly does tai chi or xingyi teach u how to fight? im not being a troll i just want some advice on the internal/external argument once and for all…it seems that to make the internal arts effective one would have to supplement them with an external art…any thoughts?
‘External methods’ (using muscles to draw strength) is one method to deliver the energy generated by internal methods, which include qi gong. External arts disregards the internal work other than maybe correct body alignment, power coming from the feet/legs/waist, etc. That’s about as far as they normally go. Taijiquan does a lot of emphasis of how to use the opponent’s energy against them, by going along with it and directing it to go in another direction and at the same time, delivering the energy generated by the internal methods, like qi gong. In taijiquan, when you get higher skill levels, you’re able to better know which parts of you are to be rigid, while others are soft to get the most out of the incoming energy from the opponent.
Someone more knowledgable than I in hsing-i will have to answer that part of it.
xing yi
how exactly does tai chi or xingyi teach u how to fight? im not being a troll i just want some advice on the internal/external argument once and for all…it seems that to make the internal arts effective one would have to supplement them with an external art…any thoughts?
i can’t say anything for taichi but you don’t need to supplement any external for xing yi chuan, xing yi is one of the most effective martial arts in the world. and i think the whole internal external argument was closed years ago.
Qi Gong is a set of exercise to improve Qi.
Tai Chi is a martial art that improves Qi as a side benefit.
Qi=functioning of the body.
I look at it this way… Gigong is practiced to cultivate chi (build more chi) and Tai Chi Chuan is practiced to learn how to circulate and use that chi. Just practicing tai chi forms does not build more chi, you need gigong to do that.
I train in Korean rather than Chinese arts so you may want to take what I have to say with a grain of salt. All the same I have continually heard it reported that the origins of what we have come to call TAI CHI CHUAN----specifically CHEN TCC-- proceed from an interfacing of QI GONG understanding with TAIZU CHANG CHUAN of SHAOLIN derivation. For myself I tend to support the general view that CHEN Wang-Ting was instrumental in this, using his seclusion in the vilage of the CHEN clan to entertain himself by investigating this material and constructing “spirit forms” through which this material might be safe-guarded.
Maybe one of the confusing things is that CHEN material was not known as “TCC” until long after one YANG Lushan had been taught the material and elected to teach it publically in Beijing. From what I have found the term “tai chi chuan” was retrofitted to the older Chen practice.
I don’t know if any of this helps.
Best Wishes,
Bruce
[QUOTE=Aeturnal;798110]how exactly does tai chi or xingyi teach u how to fight? im not being a troll i just want some advice on the internal/external argument once and for all…it seems that to make the internal arts effective one would have to supplement them with an external art…any thoughts?[/QUOTE]
Remember that the creators of said arts had A LOT of experience in martial arts. Even battlefield experience.
If you study taiji, for instance, you will find un limited movements that correspond to “external” martial art counterparts.
Usually while young we will train hard, lots of fighting, and heavy work loads. Then when we begin our “internal” training, the intention is to build upon a strong foundation and reinforce what you already have through the study of taiji. In addition you will gain many benefits through “internal” studies that will be martially aplicable (generally from a conditioning standpoint as well as through the core principles your style uses). You will even gain many techniques you may have not previously had.
This is not to say however that you must not begin with an art such as Taijiquan. All of the basics are still present, the conditioning, and with the right people even hard contact fighting/sparring.
Practiced in the traditional manner, Tai-Chi Chuan of every major style is considered a form of moving Qi-Gong, incorporating the same kinds of attributes as standing, seated, and reclining methods of Qi-Gong. These attributes include regulated breathwork techniques; synchronization of the breath with the physical postures and their movement patterns; accompanying mental visualizations for moving, refining, gathering, storing, and directing the intrinsic energy; as well as calming mental concentration methods; health and longevity benefits; martial art benefits, and so forth.
Even though most modern practitioners do not train their taiji in the traditional manner, or with traditional training agenda priorities, doesn’t negate the fact that less than 100 years ago nearly all practitioners trained in the above manner as a normal course. It was not a moving meditation practice for most practitioners, nor was it merely a beautiful Chinese ballet-like dance art, or primarily a health exercise. These latter agendas represent modern, non-martial adaptations and interpretations of the major Tai-Chi Chuan styles, and their many derivative styles, most of which are a mere shadow of the traditional arts, IMO. This trend generally results in a dilluted focus on only one or two of the many potential benefits normally experienced in the practice of the older styles. Again, this is just my personal opinion. 
Doc
Greetings..
My mentor relates this story: During the period when Kung-Fu was forbidden by the Emperor, the Arts were practiced clandestinely.. when the Emporer’s spys were around the Art was slowed down and presented as a the “village dance”.. it was from this that certain shamans and sages began to recognize certain unique benefits, there was something “internal” that emerged from the slow movements.. for the “aware” this began a branching-off area of study and cultivation.. it lead to the two major arts/disciplines of Taiji and QiGong..
Taiji is first and foremost a combat art.. but, to deny the inherent and obvious attributes beyond the Martial is not beneficial.. Taiji evolved into a comprehensive Life-style, purists that rant against other aspects of Taiji are living in the past, unwilling to change, and change is a core principle of Taiji.. That Taiji has evolved into a comprehensive system of Living Well, doesn’t detract from its Martial heritage, it adds to it.. In the classes i teach, i have specific days where specific aspects are the focus of the class.. and a special study class that deals specifically with Taiji combat.. we use limited protective gear and focus on Taiji principles applied to actual fighting situations.. we also have days where we focus on energetic cultivation, structural and alignment refinement, and “awareness”.. Forms are the tools we use to learn the principles.. principles are what we apply to Living Well..
QiGong, on the other hand, is purely energetics and physiology.. the vehicle for this study is a mix of moving and stationary meditations.. they are divided between Buddhist and Taoist directions.. Buddhists being more focused on enlightenment, and Taoist being focused on health and longevity.. of course, Taoists being Taoist they consider protecting one’s physical condition as being quite healthy 
… so, their QiGong enhances certain Martial aspects of their existence, but is not an actual Martial Art.. i find Taoists to be a bit more practical than Buddhists, but that’s just my interpretation..
Be Well..
Hi Guys,
I think most people have the potential to be like a hybrid automobile, able to operate on two different kinds of fuel. In the car, it is gasoline or electricity stored in batteries. In the human, it is food derived, or Qi Kung derived.
Using a good Qi Kung practice, a dedicated person is able to build the ‘batteries’ and store the ‘electricity’ for the 2nd kind of human power.
Then T’ai Chi becomes what happens when you step on the pedal, the transmission of the power into motion and direction through gears and linkages, stopping, starting, and changing direction by intention and focus.
Most people only use the ‘gasoline’/food side of their hybrid potential, a developed Qi Kung practice gives you both sides… but you still need a way to ‘express’ it.
[QUOTE=Aeturnal;798110]how exactly does tai chi or xingyi teach u how to fight? im not being a troll i just want some advice on the internal/external argument once and for all…it seems that to make the internal arts effective one would have to supplement them with an external art…any thoughts?[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Fire Dragon;798175]Qi Gong is a set of exercise to improve Qi.
Tai Chi is a martial art that improves Qi as a side benefit.
Qi=functioning of the body.[/QUOTE]
Internal arts have both internal and external, but the focus in training is different from external arts. Qi flow and creating powerful natural movement is emphasized more. As for learning how to fight, Every tai chi movement is a martial application.
Qigong is simply energy exercise. Tai chi is a martial art, but it is also energy exercise, so it isn’t just a side effect. You will also learn pure qigong in internal martial arts, to work on specific things. Movements can be practiced in more of a qigong way or a martial way, depending on what you want to work on. We realize that you need both fast and slow to be balanced. Yang and Yin.
In China I’ve often asked Taiji ppl to learn Qigong or Qi building exercises. Most always they will reply, “Taiji is Qigong”. So, I will respond from the viewpoint of Qigong here.
Over the years I’ve found that Qigong employs one or a combination of the following 4 methods for building Qi.
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Yi. Using the intention focused on a part of the body in meditation (See a book called Tranquil Sitting whos’ author achieved great results from this method).
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Breath. Using the breath in any number of ways, natural breathing, forced breathing, percentage breathing, rapid breathing.. etc.
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Body. Moving the body in forms such as Taiji, Qigong exercises, etc. Also some forms of Zhan Zhuang, holding positions, using the limbs to build qi.
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Alignment between heaven and earth. Seems less ppl know about this but two of the highest level qigong masters I’ve ever met use this method, Cai SongFang being one of them. Structural alignment of the body between heaven and earth facilitate universal qi flow through the body, opens channels, boosts qi.
Regarding the Taoist vs Buddhist thing, I also gravitate towards the Taoist side. I’ve seen too many Buddhist monks who’ve totally let their bodies go to practice meditative arts. And, I would disagree that Buddhists are more dedicated to Enlightment. Taoists are also interested in this practice, they just don’t let their bodies go preferring to balance health with meditative practices.