What does lineage means?

yellowpikachu · September 25, 2004, 5:58am

The same person works as hard to learn how to make good coffee.

in one experience, one stays at home and keep making coffee.

in other experienxe, one goes and buy a francise with Starbuck coffee and learning from Starbuck, how to make coffee in ths Starbuck way and running coffee business in a Starbuck way.

which experience brought one into " making a decent coffee" and “running a coffee business” easier and faster?

As for making the best coffee, well, one has to travell around the world to experience all different coffees.

kj1 · September 25, 2004, 11:08am

Originally posted by JAFO
While the power and potential of the individual can not and should not be discounted, the same should also be said for the foundations laid by those who have gone before.

Your post echos my senitments, JAFO. We have more than ourselves to remember and respect with thanks. Well expressed.

Regards,

kj

Ernie · September 25, 2004, 2:11pm

pika -
which experience brought one into " making a decent coffee" and “running a coffee business” easier and faster?

— business is business skill is skill it is sad when the 2 get mixed up ----- ego/greed

pika
As for making the best coffee, well, one has to travell around the world to experience all different coffees.

---- that’s my point , but there is not best and there are just different flavors , one might be the master of dark another of light

these are just specialist , once people lay claim to this or that group the create walls to seperate and kill natural growth , thus the cookie cutter is born

wing chun is not a cookie cutter system to stuff into boxes and line them up all nice in a package just sucks the life out of it
your wing chun will not look like your teachers and so on , sure have respect for your teacher same as you would any other good person you share time with , if you develop a friendship with your teacher over the years and your training partners i could see that become family, and you training partners might range from many families ,

but i know people like to wrap themselves up in security blankets often created by others experience and take as there own

this is a emotional subject for people , they follow,believe and invest in a person/system other then themselves

and due to this emotional connection they will defend it tooth and nail , because of course they can’t be wrong

never understood that

there are many skilled people in this world to limit yourself to a group never made sense to

maybe people just like to wear the matching shirts

but when human emotion gets involved often logic goes out the window , so better to stay out of this one
didn’t mean to mess up your thread Pika

yellowpikachu · September 25, 2004, 3:17pm

didn’t mean to mess up your thread Pika----

mess up is another part of siva’s dance of develop. what is the problem?

democratic system comes with multi-political parties and embracing all voice.

exposion to different level of ideas from different people is nature. A teenager will not think and act the same way with a 40 years old. A 40 years old will not think and act the same way with a 14.

some act according to creativity, some act according to security…

pikachu is a happy yellow fur ball without the burden of the past and no expectation of the future.

Vajramusti · September 25, 2004, 3:42pm

yellowpicahu sez:

some act according to creativity, some act according to security…

Understanding lineage does not necessarily mean robotic imitation- justs as knowing the path from Galileo to Newton to Einstein to Bohr does not make a good physicist a robot.

AmanuJRY · September 25, 2004, 3:50pm

Lineage

Many have exhibited fair assesments of lineage on this thread so far, and it can be seen that this topic is a pinnicle for some and a sore spot for others. I like to seek the balance point of these kinds of issues.

Lineage IS the source of our learning, it had to come from somewhere, and it dictates the methodology of how we learn. Respect is due, in all branches, for those who laid the groundwork or have traveled the path before us, but where lineage becomes confounded is with where we are placing that reverance.

Some will directly credit their sifu, all good, your sifu is the one who you have the closest contact with, but is he/she the architect of the system?

Some will credit their sigung. It’s less likely that you gain your personal instruction from this person, but he/she taught your sifu, right? The same question arises, are they the architect of the system you are studying?

Some will credit the ancestors. It’s impossible that you have learned anything DIRECTLY from these people, but they taught the people who taught the people who taught your sifu, right? It is possible that they are the archtects of the system, right?

Truth is, information has traveled down certain avenues, through certain people, to you. That is all that lineage is, the course that the info took to reach you.

Along the way, that info has gained insight and has been added to by any of the above mentioned people. This is what forms the differences in lineage, the different perspectives.

When does lineage become a bad thing? When the individuals deny the perspective of others, stating that the branch they are standing on is the ‘Only true branch’ (much like one branch of a tree denying that there are other branches that also bear fruit). When, by identifying themselves with that branch (lineage holder), the individual limits their view and refuses to see the fruit borne by the other branches.

yellowpikachu · September 25, 2004, 7:17pm

Originally posted by Vajramusti
[B]

Understanding lineage does not necessarily mean robotic imitation- justs as knowing the path from Galileo to Newton to Einstein to Bohr does not make a good physicist a robot. [/B]

yup.

but as you know, sometimes some do get into those robotic mode… but then in the world there are all kinds of human…

Ernie · September 25, 2004, 8:29pm

justin[Truth is, information has traveled down certain avenues, through certain people, to you. That is all that lineage is, the course that the info took to reach you.]

nice way to look at it

a passing of information what one does with that information is based on the indivudual , just having it is not enough

like being given a seed inside that seed is everything , yet you still need to plant it and cultivate it

then there are others that just keep the seed in there pocket and they tell people about the seed

hmmmm just thinking out loud

sihing · September 25, 2004, 10:13pm

TO KNOW AND NOT DO IS NOT TO KNOW…

Lineage is a history of the information transferr from person to person, sometimes in the same family, sometimes not, but it is a connection to the past which is important, but if you are going to base your skill on what the lineage is of your Martial Art then you may be in for a surprise. It always comes back to the individual and what they have done with the knowledge they have gained and how well they understand it. Its all relative is you ask me..

James

Miles_Teg · September 26, 2004, 1:02am

GOod discussion

I look at lineage like a preferred method of training.

I hate it when schools or teachers advertise their lineage to new students though. “Sifu Nob learnt W.C from Grandmaster Ching. Grangmaster Ching was the only student to inherit the secret techniques from Yip Man”. When I hear that crap I know its the wrong school for me.

todi_laugin · September 29, 2004, 1:00am

It’s purpose

The purpose of linieage is to learn the root of your kung fu history,
to learn to know your kung fu ancecsters, how they added to the kung fu, how they subtracted from the kung fu, for you to learn a better kung fu to protect your lovedones and yourself.
Now , as you learn kung fu you too become apart of that history,
and as you learn and gaine insight you too will add or subract from the kung fu to make it better for the next geration.So study with the intent of making the kung fu better for all who you work with.

AmanuJRY · September 29, 2004, 2:17am

The purpose of linieage is to learn the root of your kung fu history,…to learn to know your kung fu ancecsters, how they added to the kung fu, how they subtracted from the kung fu

The interesting thing is how people trace their lineage from themselves, back to the ‘source’ (whatever particular legened that is assosiated with their system). Rarely do they study from said ‘source’ back to present.

In doing this, and by todi laugin’s statement, one would see that there are many (by this I mean ‘a whole bunch of’) people who have ‘added’ or ‘subtracted’ or ‘enhanced’ or ‘preserved’, WC.

yellowpikachu · September 29, 2004, 3:33am

Originally posted by AmanuJRY
[B]The interesting thing is how people trace their lineage from themselves, back to the ‘source’ (whatever particular legened that is assosiated with their system). Rarely do they study from said ‘source’ back to present.

In doing this, and by todi laugin’s statement, one would see that there are many (by this I mean ‘a whole bunch of’) people who have ‘added’ or ‘subtracted’ or ‘enhanced’ or ‘preserved’, WC. [/B]

Tracing where Wing Chun Kuen from should not be that difficult, although it does take some times and visting different places and people to gather information across china, other styles, and Study lots of Buddhism, Daoism teaching and terminology.

Localization Evolution is a fact which cannot be deny. Things were still pretty clear in the 70’s since the old GMs from different lineages were still alive. Those old GMs practicing the Chinese Tradition where they stick to what the tradition.

as time moving away from the 70’s where the old GMs passing away. His-story making is expected and might even go as far as no old generation GM will dare even to think.