Yes I think that is true. CLF was supposedly developed for just such a purpose. There was also something called the Hung Moon Triad who was anti-ching. Don’t know much more about it than that.
“And just whose oral history would that be Ten Tigers, an objective, disinterested, impartial 3rd party of one of the Northern brood?” -point well taken, I suppose that’s why they don’t celebrate July 4th in England.
“Do you stand by this understanding or have I mistaken your position all together?” Mistaken-when I said developed, I meant further developed, rather than “created”, of course Martial Arts existed before Buddhism and Shaolin. According to some sources, the contribution Da Mo made was not bringing Martial Arts to Shaolin, but the combining of Hei Gung with Gung-Fu, thus bringing it up to a higher level. Agree? Dissagree?
" I am not at all sure what you mean by attributes. Please define and or explain your use of this term." Attributes in terms of martial arts are properties or characteristic techniques, or skills.- meaning that many arts, both Northern and Southern, place emphasis on ging, sticking/sensitivity,rooting,skeletal alignment/structure, infighting, etc. In most cases, a style doesn’t OWN a particular technique, although it still might a trademark of that system, many other systems utilise the same technique.
-There are exceptions to every rule,and I suppose every blanket statement. I have a rock on my desk that has etched into it the phrase,“nothing is etched in stone”
TenTigers - point well taken, I suppose that’s why they don’t celebrate July 4th in England.
A wonderfully season appropriate analogy. I apologize to my brothers in the United Kingdom and my comment was not made in a mean spirit.
TenTigers – “Mistaken-when I said developed, I meant further developed, …
Thank you ever so kindly for correcting my defective understanding. Agreed on this point.
TenTigers - … the contribution Da Mo made was not bringing Martial Arts to Shaolin, but the combining of Hei Gung with Gung-Fu, thus bringing it up to a higher level. Agree? Dissagree?
Disagree, my friend, although your point taken in context [Shaolin] is, I believe, very much correct. Internal Alchemy associated with Taoist practices had been incorporated into various Chinese [indigenous] hands long before the arrival of Da Mo. Some nei gung methods associated with Hakka hands are so old that even the oral histories [myths] have been lost.
TenTigers - Attributes in terms of martial arts are properties or characteristic techniques, or skills.- meaning that many arts, both Northern and Southern, place emphasis on ging, sticking/sensitivity,rooting,skeletal alignment/structure, infighting, etc.
Ah, yes, now I understand your point, very well stated. You argue that it is not so much in the [how] but the fact that a fair degree of commonality exists in the larger sense of the [what]. Food for thought and I bow in your direction.
And what do you make of the root itself, typically being different in Southern and Northern hands? Please be mindful that I am not in any way arguing or inferring one way is better than another, just different. Specifically, my friend, what, if anything, must be present if the hand employs a floating root? What would you say to the same question as applied to the Southern hand. For the sake of discussion let us loosen the binds of system specific definitions and speak in terms general, as commonly understood, with regard to North and South hands.
TenTigers - I have a rock on my desk that has etched into it the phrase,“nothing is etched in stone”
A most excellent stone to be sure. How is it that this stone only appears immediately after we have etched something in stone? 
Cannibalism is unequivocally a valid dynamic for all societies. I am, Hideous.
Noerthern Mantis sez:
(Southern) If you have seen wing chun or hung gar you will see that they generally don’t move much relying more on a solid base than dodgy footwork. Heck some don’t even move at all. My friend showed me siu lim tau and you could practically do that form in the kicthen.
Northern Mantis-
Given your own desginated label-northern mantis- your comments are understandable but wrong. Different forms in southern styles have different purposes. The sil lim tao is for
development of alignment and structure and balance and rooting.
Wing chun is a very mobile system for those who know something about it…stability and mobility are both important
in the art.
Thanks for the correction.
Northern Mantis
No! northern footwork is more stable then the south while giving better mobility.
No! Northern footwork allows one to turn tighter circles then the south while having the emphasis of moving forward as opposed to staying on the spot.
No! it rains in the North as it does in “Southern California”. Your terrain example is equivalent to saying north=rocky and south=muddy.
I would refrain from calling you stupid as this may ban me from the forum.
Ego_Extrodinaire - No! northern footwork is more stable then the south while giving better mobility.
A statement most odd in that mobility and stability are mutually limiting. A mountain is very stable, yet lacks appreciable mobility, would you not agree, my friend?
Ego_Extrodinaire - No! Northern footwork allows one to turn tighter circles then the south while having the emphasis of moving forward as opposed to staying on the spot
Ah, I see. How is that you so highly prize playing at being a spinning top? One cannot turn in a tight circle and transverse in a linear fashion at the same time. You have some very peculiar ideas to be sure. Do you also have very much experience and skill, my friend?
Ego_Extrodinaire - No! it rains in the North as it does in “Southern California”. Your terrain example is equivalent to saying north=rocky and south=muddy.
Ah, now it is made clear. You are not a martial artist but a meteorologist. A rather shabby profession given the performance rating of most weather forecasters would you not agree, my friend?
Ego_Extrodinaire - I would refrain from calling you stupid as this may ban me from the forum. I would refrain from calling you stupid as this may ban me from the forum.
Indeed, you of all people on this thread should always refrain from ever calling anyone stupid. Why would you give another person your personal designator and cause confusion, my friend?
Cannibalism is unequivocally a valid dynamic for all societies. I am, Hideous.
Hey Ego did those southern guys whoop your butt that hard to keep trolling or what?
Just because I meant mobile doesnt’ mean that it is not stable. Don’t compare the terrain of California with China. They’re both different with different soil and different weather regions. Have you ever been to China? I was told this by people who have actually gone there.Don’t forget that it is a bigger country and they get monsoons in the south[sp?].
I don’t take kindly to idnirect insults. I would call you a self obsessed fool with a fragile ego and weak kung fu but that would be wrong.
I suggest you spend more time practicing than spending your time trolling 'cause I’ve seen your website and your stances are laughable for someone with such a big mouth. No wonder you got your butt handed to you by those gnor chor guys.
Yuan Fen-
I was comparing forms but you are right I am wrong, to a certain degree however. I wasn’t trying to take away credit of mobilty of southern styles.I was comparing to the characteristics that northern styles would have lunging foward ,hopping/chain stepping, rolling, aerial type of moves kicks like butterfly kicks. Like I said before there exceptions.
NP - The one with an ego so large he has adopted it as his name has a web page complete with pictures? Wonderful. Would you be so kind as to post the address so that I might personally see extra ego’s structures? I do believe it will assist me in properly valuing his posts, do you not agree, my friend?
Cannibalism is unequivocally a valid dynamic for all societies. I am, Hideous.
Ego_Maximus also used to post as Goktimus_Prime , I’m sure as you can see he is really into transformers. I know Ego might Deny it but he has denied it before and there’s other people on this board to bacl me up on that.
His website can be found here.
http://www.geocities.com/goktimus/Martial.html
Funny how he has 2 southern links at the bottom right? All this time he was saying how his mantis is superior and how northern styles are superior when he can’t even hold a decent horse stance.
Check out the main web page http://www.geocities.com/goktimus/index.html
Thank you ever so kindly NP. I looked carefully at the photos contained on large ego’s web page.
I do believe I have developed a sufficient level of understanding of where he is on this path to properly assign his opinions regarding martial arts the value of [ZERO].
Therefore, I will no longer respond to any of his piffle and ignorant hubbub.
Cannibalism is unequivocally a valid dynamic for all societies. I am, Hideous.
Biggotry!!!
Northern Mantis- Thanks for the link it made for some interesting insights into Max’s perspective.
Where is your web page?
Ok Y’all, now you’ve done it and awakened the guy with miserable kung fu. (just a hint - dont put these threads here - the ego will strike every single time, trust me, I’ve been through this)
But anyhow, getting to the question about Northern and Southern trademarks, I think in general you will find mostly shorter movements in southern styles with the exception of Choy Lay Fut and Lama Pai styles (and Lama Pai styles are from Tibet, which is a whole different terrain all together being that you are 13,000 feet up and all) and more rooted stances - like hung gars deep horse stance and punches and kicks ala wing chun. Like I said, there are some exceptions. I know that in Hop Gar we have a whole conglomerate of stuff that ranges from northern stylish kicks to southernish punching and some things that resemble Kalari.
That’s my two cents, feel free to tear this to shreds if you so desire.
No tearing my friend, simply questions and questions only.
HopGar - … the question about Northern and Southern trademarks, I think in general you will find mostly shorter movements in southern styles with the exception of Choy Lay Fut and Lama Pai styles …
Would you not consider Hung Gar’s kuen of substantial length, my friend? Is not Tibet in fact Western China and not South?
HopGar - in Hop Gar we have a whole conglomerate of stuff that ranges from northern stylish kicks to southernish punching and some things that resemble Kalari.
Kalari Payatt traces far back in India’s history and existed as a whole personal transformation system centuries before being exported to China, would you not agree, my friend? What, if anything, does the influence of Kalari Payatt that you see in your hand tell you about the Hop Gar hand, my friend?
Cannibalism is unequivocally a valid dynamic for all societies. I am, Hideous.
Before I respond I must point out that you use the word “friend” almost like how the word “Honorable” is used in Julius Caesar.
but anyhow here goes “friend:”
"Would you not consider Hung Gar’s kuen of substantial length, my friend? Is not Tibet in fact Western China and not South? "
I never said it wasn’t, I pointed out the most notable exceptions which are Choy Lay Fut and Lama Pai. Tibet is in SOUTHWESTERN China, making Hop Gar in fact, a southern style, or if you want to be a jerk about it, call it a western chinese style. Doesn’t matter, its usually categorized with southern styles. Southwest is still south, nice try pal.
"Kalari Payatt traces far back in India’s history and existed as a whole personal transformation system centuries before being exported to China, would you not agree, my friend? What, if anything, does the influence of Kalari Payatt that you see in your hand tell you about the Hop Gar hand, my friend? "
www.tibetankungfu.com - go here, it’ll give you a little insight. Oh yeah, I know that about Kalari. Nothing new to me.
By the way, you are starting to sound quite scornful of everyone in this thread. Cool down a bit man.
Hop Gar - As for sounding scornful as well as rather rude and ignorant you are echelons above me, my friend. Interesting that you regard Tibet as South - Western and only [jerks] claim West while those of you who are brilliant beyond the stars call it South, my friend. Rather judgmental and spiteful of you, would you not agree, my friend?
So wonderful must it be to know [that] about Kalari, yet, it seems odd that you could not answer the question, my friend.
No need to respond to this post as there is no sense in communicating with you. I could not possibly learn from one with such high eyebrows nor could I even consider begging you to most kindly speak down to my lowly level.
Ah yes, the rarified air breathed by those most high. I sometimes wonder about the ill effects of oxygen deprivation on the brain of those such as you.
Cannibalism is unequivocally a valid dynamic for all societies. I am, Hideous.
Cloud One-
I don’t have a web site since I don’t have the resources or the knowledge on how to make on but I can post some pics of me doing some stances if you want.
Any one else here think that Hideous is weird?
And to contribute somthing to the thread…I always thought that the chinese in the north tended to be taller and the chinese in the south tended to be shorter and heavyer of build. Their martial arts were developed to suit the type of person useing it so that taller northen guys use more high kicks and southern guys use more solid stances and strong short punches.
Also I think that some of you are getting northern/southern and short fist/long fist mixed up.
Liokault - Any one else here think that Hideous is weird?
Ah yes, yet another troll casts out a line. With such a record against other styles, [sucsess] you termed it, you must be very famous indeed. I suppose experiencing [sucsess] is a good thing although I truly do not know what it is. SUCCESS, on the other hand is something with which I am familiar. How goes the fishing my troll friend?
Liokault - And to contribute somthing to the thread…
A wonderful recital of magazine derived knowledge repeating stereotypical generalizations and such is your contribution, my friend. In your brief martial art journey have you ever encountered a thing referred to as [Spell Check] or [SOMthing] like that, my friend?
Liokault - Also I think that some of you are getting … mixed up.
And you most certainly know about being [mixed up] do you not, my friend?
Cannibalism is unequivocally a valid dynamic for all societies. I am, Hideous.