Well, another fighting contest is done.Guess what, no kung fu guys even entered.

Martial Media, Culture and Other Arts Other Related Arts
21

From Mike Patterson’s Koushou Page:

The following is a listing of accomplishments of Shr Fu Mike Patterson’s Chinese KuoShu Full Contact Teams, since his re-involvement in such training in 1994. All of places depicted below were achieved in World, International, National and Regional Full Contact forums open to all styles and ranks.

The fighters are hand picked students of Shr Fu Patterson and are trained in Classical Hsing I Chuan. Some of them also have Pa Kua and Chen Style Tai Chi training under Shr Fu Patterson as well. We wanted to let people know that the Internal Arts are dynamic and effective fighting systems! As they are well known for in Asia.. This, in addition to having tremendous health benefits to the practitioners involved with their study.

2000 International Tournament
Team took 2nd Place Overall
7 Person Team; 5 Men, 2 Women
Men’s 187 lb. 1st place Mario Mancini
Men’s 195 lb. 1st place Alex Shpigel
Men’s Unlimited 1st place Step Taylor
Women’s 105 lb. 1st place Ali Cheng
Women’s 145 lb. 1st place Cathy Reedy

1999 National Tournament
Team took 2nd Place Overall
7 Person Team; 5 Men, 2 Women
Men’s 165 lb. 3rd place Brandon Drouillard
Men’s 187 lb. 1st place Mario Mancini
Men’s 195 lb. 1st place Alex Shpigel
Women’s 105 lb. 1st place Ali Cheng
Women’s 145 lb. 1st place Cathy Reedy

1999 German International Invitational
One Placed in Finals
1 Person Team; 1 Man
Men’s 187 lb. 1st place Mario Mancini

1998 International Tournament
Six Placed in Finals
10 Person Team; 8 Men, 2 Women
Men’s 154 lb. 2nd place Michael Corradino
Men’s 187 lb. 2nd place Mario Mancini
Men’s 195 lb. 1st place Alex Shpigel
Men’s 210+ lb. 2nd place Steven Zamiara
Women’s 105 lb. 2nd place Ali Cheng
Women’s 145 lb. 1st place Cathy Reedy

1998 German International Invitational
One Placed in Finals
1 Person Team; 1 Man
Men’s 187 lb. 1st place Mario Mancini
Men’s Royal Rumble 1st place Mario Mancini

1996 World Tournament
U.S. Team took 3rd Place Overall
6 Men came from this Institution
Men’s 176 lb. 3rd place Mario Mancini
Men’s 187 lb. 1st place Alex Shpigel
Men’s 210 lb. 3rd place Bob Reynolds

1996 International Tournament
Team took 1st Place Overall
8 Person Team; 8 Men
Men’s 132 lb. 1st place J.P. Hickman
Men’s 154 lb. 1st place [name omitted]
Men’s 165 lb. 1st place Doug Gargaro
2nd place Robert Marzo
Men’s 176 lb. 1st place Mario Mancini
Men’s 187 lb. 1st place Alex Shpigel
Men’s 210 lb. 2nd place Bob Reynolds

1995 National Tournament
Team took 1st Place Overall
10 Person Team; 8 Men, 2 Women
Men’s 132 lb. 1st place J.P. Hickman
Men’s 154 lb. 1st place [name omitted]
2nd place Tony Acaldo
Men’s 165 lb. 1st place Doug Gargaro
Men’s 176 lb. 1st place Mario Mancini
Men’s 187 lb. 1st place Alex Shpigel
Women’s 132 lb. 2nd place Anna Lagios
Women’s 154 lb. 2nd place Jaime Morgan

1995 West Coast Regional Tournament
No team scoring awarded
7 Person Team; 7 Men
Men’s 143 lb. 1st place Michael Corradino
2nd place J.P. Hickman
Men’s 154 lb. 1st place [name omitted]
2nd place Rocky Valentine
3rd place James Lynch
Men’s 176 lb. 1st place Mario Mancini
Men’s 187 lb. 1st place Alex Shpigel

1994 International Tournament
Team took 3rd Place Overall
7 Person Team; 7 Men
Men’s 143 lb. 2nd place Michael Corradino
Men’s 154 lb. 3rd place [name omitted]
Men’s 165 lb. 2nd place William Revak
Men’s 176 lb. 1st place Mario Mancini
Men’s 187 lb. 2nd place Bob Reynolds
3rd place Louie Addeo
Men’s 210 lb. 3rd place John Butcher
Men’s 210+ lb. 3rd place Paul Smith

Just an example of the people who train hard every day to compete against anyone who will fight them. This is reality. Which is clearly far from the ignorant griping that goes on here.

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Hey, where can I get more information on the kuoshou tournaments? Including the rules? I had a link a while ago, but I’ve forgotten it and how I found it.

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Last time I checked, the official governing body’s webpage was dead. You can ask about it on Mike Patterson’s board, or talk to whoever does it locally.

The rules can vary a bit in regional events, but the international ones are where it’s at. No groin, cerebellum, or throat hits. No gouging, biting, or head butting. I’m not sure how or when they stop things when they go to the ground. Lots of elbows, knees, grappling, throws, and takedowns though.

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“They just sit back and wish in their minds that they will never have to unleash the power of kung fu!”

I thought that was kind of funny actualy.

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“They just sit back and wish in their minds that they will never have to unleash the power of kung fu!”

I found that kind of funny actualy.

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One more from the MMA perspective…

Well, as most of you would hopefully know by now, i speak from the MMA perspective. All I have to say is that not all MMA practitioners are internet trolls, disrespectful crap talkers or testosterone raging sadists screaming for blood while watching UFC all the time…cuz they are not that, anymore than all kung fu practitioners are closet wu$ who are afraid to really fight and have to put themselves in denial with the illusion of humble deadliness. To be honest, i am of the opinion that much of traditional CMA is not as practical or functional as modern mixed martial arts, but I’m not here to pound that idea down everyone’s throat. I’m just here to exchange knowledge and get a taste of other people’s ideas. And I could personally care less whether or not kung fu people fight in MMA competition or not. I am no one to tell someone else what they should and should not be doing. Hey, to each their own.

In defense of the traditionalists here, I will say that it is simply too easy for an armchair grappler/kickboxer to come here and say, “See? My art is better than your’s. People from my style fight but you guys don’t!” If you’re not the one fighting, then what is the point in saying this? Does that somehow make you smarter by default? You can’t conveniently hide behind a real fighter’s record simply because a kung fu guy doesn’t have the same luxury. If you’ve never fought, then you’ve never fought. Whether you practice Bjj or kung fu, you still don’t know jacksh!t until you yourself have been tested under fire. Only a coward hides behind another person’s success. Personally, I like to force myself to at least compete on the amateur level just to gain real experience, but I could never see myself doing it full time as a professional fighter. I’m just not that kind of a person. What few fights I have had have made me nervous and uncomfortable going in, and left me sore for days afterward. When it gets down to really facing another strong, skilled opponent for a full contact fight, I tend to believe that at that point it is just as much psychological as it is technical. In other words, if you are the type of person to crack under pressure then you won’t be a good fighter no matter what kind of techniques you have learned through training. Hell, I know guys who have great MA skill, but openly admit that when they face a real confrontation they freeze up and virtually forget every technique they’ve ever learned. So the way i see it, regardless of style non-fighters are in no position to accuse other non-fighters.

“Courage is the resistance of fear, the mastery of fear…not the absence of fear.”

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DragonRage … Well, said. :slight_smile:

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Wheres the guy who wrote this?

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The funny thing is most Kung Fu guys go on how MMA does not mean anything yet alot of TRUE:P Kung Fu masters also work in the movies either as actors or Choregoraphers.

One thing I find funny is how I can show alot of my Kung Fu mates a UFC and they have no interest and lots of criticisms,yet they will go on endlessly how Hidden Deagon and Crouching Tiger is a marvel and has improved their Kung Fu training or how thats what they have been talking about in their school. Or after watching a Jackie Chan movie they adopt the techniques and drill them religiously…

I wonder why that is ?

Kym

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Why??

A professional athlete who does nothing but shoot baskets all day, throw footballs around, kick soccer balls for 12-14 hrs. each day or wrestles for a living should be able to beat a layman or part-time enthusiast of any of these sports. They could probably kick your ass,too, because all they do all day 24-7, 365, is hone their body into a fine-tuned machine. Plus, innately many of them are bigger, faster and stronger than the average person, let alone martial artist.

Yes, MMA (I can’t use NHB as this is a misnomer used to fan excitement and intrigue about a sport) is a SPORT. Western boxing is a sport. Muay Thai is sport. An example for me, an empirical form of evidence, was my fortune to have grown up with many Muay Thai kickboxers who trained in Thailand, became Buddhist monks and returned to my school Thai “warriors”. They had names like Siddachai and Somchat, and many of them were large guys (6 ft+, and 200+ lbs.), but many of them couldn’t hold their water in a street fight against reality fighters who knew how to win in a street scenario. PERIOD.

The competitive culture in America has created an atmosphere of insecurity and low self-esteem, where miswired individuals with inferiority complexes feel they need to prove their worth and strength as a man. This false sense of superiority many Thai boxers/boxers feel is the result of TV and not reality. In short our culture increases the street efficacy of these arts. If you don’t know what I’m saying then good, that’s one more person that I’m more informed than!

Most of these guys eat, think and drink competition, and don’t have any other job or hobbies (not all of course). As furious as MMA may seem they are but a shadow of the reality of self-preservation. I thought BJJ and grappling was the isht? How did things become so conviluted that now people in this sport are claiming to train MMA? Doesn’t that imply that you’re learning the stand-up as well as the groundwork? Well isn’t that what a true traditional MA teaches. Granted there can be many lessons learned from our grappling brothers (I’m a Caique JJ practitioner, also), but the truth is I don’t want to go to the ground in the street, ever. If I do then I’ll end it the fastest way possible. I won’t use my patience and sensitivity to bait someone into a finishig move. I’ll just occlude their Carotids with my free hand.

When are you gonna ever face someone of John Marsh’s or Rickson’s abilities on the street? Most of those guys are honorable men that are going to avoid the legality of a street fight, just like 90% of martial artist. So stop with this high school wrestler’s mentality of “my style can whupp’ yours” (and I saw many a wrestler in HS taken out by poo-butts)!

There may be a time when you need to use your vast grappling repertoire in the streets, and your test will come there. If you wanna play human pit bull (and that’s what the smarter people in power want) to make sorry sap-suckers rich, and you a few brain cells stupider, then fine. Just don’t try and pass it off as martial arts. Call it what it is: Narcissism bordering on sociopathic tendencies.

The only competition you have is with yourself…
Peace!!!

31

Yeah!

Wisely put Omega!!!
The goal of my MA is to preserve my health and protect myself. I’ve had my share of fights and conflict. Sometimes I’ve felt worse when I’ve one a fight.
Won’t fight and can’t fight are two different
things. I measure myself against myself. I can always push and do better. That’s what it’s all about for me, pushing my limits past my limitations in thought and action.

I AM ABOUT DEFYING MY “CAN’T DO” CONVENTIONAL SELF-MENTALITY!!!

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wondering if these guys know there doing kung fu and dont even know it

matt bugg

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I just read omegapoints reply, I think he eloquently stated what a lot of others tried to say before him. He’s exactly right!!

34

Just a thought

How many MMA’s fought in the Kou shou tournys in Baltimore this year? Did any win? What about San Shou and San Da? I don’t recall an Gracies EVER winning in those events. I don’t recall any Gracies ever winning in a Muy Tai competitione either.

I think, each group wether it be BJJ, Muy Tai or Traditional Kung Fu, tends to fight in thier own arenas, and very rarely cross over.

To say “Yup, the MMA figts are over and Guess what? Not a SINGLE Kung Fu guy even entered”, is just stupid, because none of you ever enter any other cometitions but your own either!!!

When you fight in the Kou Shou, San Shou/San DA, Tae Kwon Do, K1, Pankration, Val Tudo, Maddison Square garden, Midwest Kick Boxing circiute and Summo, not to mention Pride, Greco Roman Wrestling (What ever circutes they have) and English Boxing circutes etc… AND WIN!!, THEN you can get up here and complain no Kung Fu guys entered your fights.

Just a Thought

Check out the Royal Dragon Web site

http://www.Royaldragon.4dw.com

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hey choke you out

i would just say, that how can you mock what you have not taken, i highly doubt you have taken any form of kung-fu. granted, i have never taken BJJ but that doesnt mean i will say something bad about it without knowing anything about it. but your attitude, and posts around here not only show how stupid and ignorant you are, but also gives a bad name to your style of martial art. because if all the guys there are like you, i cant see why anyone would want to learn that style. then again you dont learn arogance, you are born with it.

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What do you expect from a red headed step child.

I

37

Well the next UFC is coming up in a few weeks.So far no traditionalists have entered.

With over fifty fighting venues available, I wonder why the most frequently trained Martial Art won’t enter any fighting contests outside of the first couple of UFC’s?

38

Another koushu contest done, and not a single BJJ guy even placed. I wonder why these so-called reality fighters are so afraid of reality.

Read between the lines.

39

What is kousho?And by the way, it’s rare to see a “BJJ” man in MMA.Everyone is crosstrained.

40

Well I looked for kyuossho whatever the spelling is.Nothing.

My point is that there are so many venues for fighting.The number has literally skyrocketed since the archaic days of the UFC.I’m truly wondering why no traditionalist has found the time to enter a NHB style tournament.