Ok, it’s allways been my observation that lifitng weights not only strengthened muscles, but also the bones and joints. Infact I remember seeing a TV special that some doctors are actually prescribing weigth lifting to older women with ostio because it increases bone mass.
Today I was working with a friend, and he made the comment that wieghts make the muscles strong, but the joints are weak. His theory is that if you are fighting a big muscular guy, attack the joints because all the weight lifting wears them out and weakens them. He says “Yeah, they are geting big strong muscles, but at what cost? They are damageing thier joints!!”
I personally think he could not be more wrong about this (Improper and Over training injuries aside). What do the rest of you think about his assertions?
Also, unless I am totally off base here, where did this myth that wieght lifting is bad come from? Kung Fu uses plenty of weighted devices…so how is it that “Weights are bad” came to be in many schools?
I think the myth comes from the fact that so many people who lift weights do so improperly. I think you can compare it to the view that many people have about martial arts. Many people see the abundance of mcdojos and conclude that all martial arts are this way and are therefore a joke. I think that many martial artists who see the abundance of weightlifters who don’t stretch and lift properly conclude that all weightlifting is this way and is therefore bad.
Thats just silly… another myth is that weightlifters are not flexible and doing it makes you stiff. Can’t remember where I read it but apparently they were testing olympic athletes and weightlifters had flexibility second only to gymnists, or something to that effect.
Since I started lifting in december I have become more flexible, faster, gotten stronger of course, better structure and am surprised to see that I can hold ma bu longer and my KF has improved tenfold. My joints are not being left behind. Its great, but yes there are alot who do it wrong, especially in my high school, since its… a high school.
From my sparse knowledge on the subject, muscles function in a balance/counterbalance capacity. Each major muscle group has an equal and opposite group which balances it, and when you isolate and emphasise a single group, the result could be, among other things, joint weakness.
As already stated, this is improper training, but its pretty common overall. Young guys will tend to emphasise the biceps over everything else and so on.
weight training is something that must be done correctly, especially for martial artists involved in high impact arts. which in it self will put a lot of strain on many joints if also not practiced correctly.
you could also say that someone who practices certain arts will have specific weaknesses due to over focus.
the weight training is bad thing likely comes from misinformation on the part of many martial artists. they take it that body builder type training is all there is. they know nothing about strength training and assume that all weight training is bad. these same misinformed people likely came up with these other notions also, such as weight training makes you slow and stiff.
It has been my personal observation that there is a slight grain of truth to the myth that weight-training is bad for the martial artist’s flexibility.
Let me explain.
When I do a set of heavy deadlifts for reps, it often happens that my back is sore and stiff for a few days afterword. During that time my spinal flexibility is nil, because moving in my normal range of motion is painful and feels like I’m going to injure myself. I’m phasing out high volume methods because of this fact.
So the caveat is that certain types of weight-training, especially conventional body building methods, make the trainee less flexible in the short term. The key is to explore the methods used by strength athletes instead of bodybuilders. Powerlifting, olympic lifting, and plyometric methods (as used by footballers, for example) can only benefit the martial artist.
As Sevenstar pointed out, bodybuilding isn’t the only way, and in my opinion it’s probably the wrong way for a martial artist to train.
yeah i can say that i have knee problems to start with and wieght training has helped significantly in correcting it by developing the stabalizing muscles. so i think your friend is misinformed. i would say that whoever mentioned not working opposing muscle groups makes an excellent point. i see ppl neglect this all the time. its like a guy i know who does a crazy amount of push ups everyday but he never works out his biceps. while he doesnt get joint pain he does tend to get pulls and cramps in his arm. i told him why and he just shrugged. guess there is just no getting through to some people. the other thing to consider is their form. there are tons of weight training exercises that can easily be done incorrectly that will destroy your joints. whether bc you have bad form or are trying too much weight. for instance squats. if you do them too low you can do damage to the knees. military press can do damage to the shoulder. but if done correctly it shouldnt weaken anything. if anyone is interested the best weight training book i have ever read is
[QUOTE=SevenStar;745541]the weight training is bad thing likely comes from misinformation on the part of many martial artists. they take it that body builder type training is all there is. they know nothing about strength training and assume that all weight training is bad. these same misinformed people likely came up with these other notions also, such as weight training makes you slow and stiff.[/QUOTE]
To compound the issue, these same people often cream themselves over getting stone locks and other “traditional” strength-training devices.
This is not true. Research shows that lifting weights creates denser bones and builds stronger muscles that help stabilize and protect joints. One study, published in the Journal of Rheumatology, followed two groups of individuals with a diagnosis of osteoarthritis over fours months.
One group followed their regular routine. The other group performed simple home-based weight bearing exercise, including such things as squats and leg extensions. Those who performed simple weight training exercises reported a 43 percent reduction in pain and a 44 percent improvement in physical functioning (walking, stair climbing, sitting, and standing) than compared to the non-exercising group.
I think a lot of the weight lifting is bad for you nonsense in traditional martial arts comes from arrogant people who have the feeling that there system holds the answers to every question in the universe, when in fact they don’t have a flippin techincal clue to stand on in a lot of regards.
I remeber a comment about a famous ying jow pai grandmaster who only does 40 grams of protien a day, a nutritionist friend replied that for this person’s body weight and activities it is a absurdly low number, out jumps a fanboy who screams…how dare you say what is to low of a protien amount for her, she is a grandmaster and knows what she is doing…:rolleyes: :rolleyes:
40 GRAMS EHY? That is like my one friend who says she never sleeps more than 6 hours a nite, when I have seen her sleep more than 9 when I have spent the nite at her place…every time I spent the nite there…
I’m convinced that people who say weight lifting is bad for you are really just people who don’t want to lift weights and they use “it’s bad for you” as an excuse not to do it.
Also, it’s well know that Bruce Lee injured his back while weight lifting so now it’s bad for you.
I run a lot. I was at this race and I’m chatting with this dude. I explained that I was just getting over a knee injury and was doing a lot of squats. He quickly says that “squats are bad for your knees”. I was kinda stunned by his ignorance. Finally this guy next to us says, actually squats are probably the best thing you can do for your knees. After that I just kinda walked away.
Your joints and tendons work with your muscles, but in a supporting role. So if you over train you can tear dislocate and overall weaken joints and tendons.
Ex: You could possibly bench 300lbs. from the start. However, your elbow/rotator cuff/tendon in you elbow, may not yet be able to handle such a load. So rather than strengthening it, you are damaging them.
Now if you gradually increase the weight through time and work up to 300lbs. You are building your muscles in conjunction with your tendons. Thereby strengthening them.
Your joints and tendons work with your muscles, but in a supporting role. So if you over train you can tear dislocate and overall weaken joints and tendons.
Ex: You could possibly bench 300lbs. from the start. However, your elbow/rotator cuff/tendon in you elbow, may not yet be able to handle such a load. So rather than strengthening it, you are damaging them.
Now if you gradually increase the weight through time and work up to 300lbs. You are building your muscles in conjunction with your tendons. Thereby strengthening them.[/I]
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I’m not strong enugh to llift something heavy enough to ripp anything. And if I was to take lifting seriously, anything that WOULD rip if I was strong enough, would increase in strangth along with the muscles anyway…unless i was doi’n roids or something that threw the system artificailly out of balance.
I suppose if I did something reptedly that made a minor tear, and that slowly grew I could, but I am too lazy to ever train weights that hard
I think the “Sparring is bad” one is really a distortion on the “Sparring too early” is bad.
You really need some tools to spar with before you do it, or you just end up unproductively flailing. It’s better to learn a small handfull of techniques along with the footwork and basic positioning and timing skills through pre arranged partner drills before you jump in and spar.
I submit a cycle of learning several new skills/techniques followd by pre arranged practice of the new techniques and finally sparring with them should be a consistant, and repeted regimant.
Learn 3 techniques, 2man drill, spar/fight…learn 3 new ones, 2 man drill, spar/fight…repete.
You really need some tools to spar with before you do it, or you just end up unproductively flailing
This makes sense but not in the fashion you see some tradional people advocating. We have all heard about people waiting for spar for absurd lengths fo time.
