Discussion on weight lifting

Wai Jia: The Kung Fu Forum Kung Fu Forum
1

One thing that a lot of my friends(my self included)and other people seem to keep researching and asking questions about is weight lifting to complement your martial arts training.I thought that since this question keeps reappearing that we could start a discussion about it on here,about the pros and cons, and what works v.s. what doesn’t work.What are your opinions on wieght lifting and it’s effectivness as opposed to bodyweight exercises.I personally like doing bodyweight exercises just as much(if not more)as lifting weights.The main reason I like them is because I know that i’m getting results from them.I just started taking Kung Fu where my instructors like to stress physical fitness more so than my instructors did at my old karate school(actually we did no physically exerting exercises in karate).Because of all the exercises that I have been doing(in the kwoon and at home)that I learned from my kung fu class I have gained some strength and am in the best shape i’ve ever been in but,one thing that I have thought about is this.Bodyweight exercises will help you to get stronger in the beggining but once you get to a certain point you are just working on muscle endurance and not strength.Therefore,if you want to get any stronger you have to incorporate some sort of weight training into it or you will just be standing still in the strength department.Because of this problem I started to do a little powerlifting which has worked out wonderfully.When I first started lifting weights I could barely bench press 120 one time and was shaky afterwards.After doing the powerlifting for about 2 months I could bench press 150 about 4 times.Based on that experience I think that lifting weights is a good idea and can be very helpful(if done right)to a person in the martial arts of any kind.What are some of your experiences with lifting weights?Do you perfere to lift for strength of endurance or do you do both?Do you even think that weight lifting is beneficial?If you don’t lift weights,why not?If you do lift weights,why do you?Do you like bodyweight exercises more than lifting weights and why?

For those who are still reading this:I think that if everyone answers these questions we can get rid of a lot of the questions that pop up on these boards about weight lifting and have more knowledge about it ourselves.

Thanks for hanging on throughout this post!!!

Later

Viper

2

The development of strength, to me, is a segment of martial arts and nothing more. Each piece must be equally considered and pondered leaving nothing untouched. This is about totality and absolute knowledge of ones body and mind.
If getting a big bench press will develop muscular strength so that when need be a punch can be executed with the proper amount of strength at the proper time with little to no overexertion or wasted energy. That is mind, strength would be desired, but, if getting a big bench press can make you have a big chest and that allows you to ascertain some sort of ignorant bragging rights to your chums, then you are a fool and the weight lifting is pointless. Kung fu trains the mind and humbles the ego.
Personally, I enjoy some weights, but mostly bodyweight exercises and above all dedicate your journals, time, energy and deep thoughts towards your kung fu as a totality. Address the segments and you should do fine. :slight_smile:

3

I only do it for da chicks!!! :slight_smile:

4

"above all dedicate your journals, time, energy and deep thoughts towards your kung fu as a totality. "

Thats a very good idea and one that a lot of people overlook.They get so obsessed with thinking “oh no,that guy is stronger than me,I better lift weights more and practice less so I can take him out if I need to” that they don’t spend enough time on perfecting their form and tecniques along with other things.I personally work out for about an hour or a little more and then practice my kung fu for for about the same amount of time(if my homework allows it,**** that math teacher!).I think that you need to have a balance of both to be totally succesful in your training.For example,You lift weights and work out for a long time and then practice your martial art for a couple minutes then you get in a fight and get hit because you didn’t practice your technique enough or vice versa,you block the attack but can’t hurt the other person because you have no power in your strikes.Therefore,you need both,one without the other will(most of the time)make you loose the fight.Of course,this isn’t always true but for the most part it holds up.

cya

Viper

5

proper weight training is definitely beneficial. It can be used to build both strength and muscular endurance, and can mean the difference between a victory and defeat in some situations. even with proper form, strength can resist things. on the same token, that extra strength can enhance your form when you are facing hard resistance.

6

Weight training, just like everything else, is a good thing as long as you don’t overdo it.

7

bump

8

I don’t know why so many folks seem to think that adding mass and having it show is such a bad thing or only due to ego. Some people just enjoy lifting weights. Others know that if you appear to be in good shape you are less likely to be randomly attacked.

Ever had a siberian husky give you a long hard stare? For most folks its enough to enforce a change of skivvies. For those that know dogs they are virtually harmless. Not that you should be all bark and no bite, but having them both never hurts.

9

Good point, Ewallace. You can be a crazy fighting machine, but if you are slight in appearance, you have a better chance of being attacked than somebody who looks strong and musclular by Western standards. In fact, I think in terms of self-defense, being a big strong guy is better than knowing a MA in a lot of cases.

10

^^^^ How do you get that being a big strong guy can be better than a person in the MA?

11

the big guy doesn’t have to fight

12

Welcome to the forum Jzf_K. Always great to have another Texan on the board. We don’t have many. :slight_smile:

13

Intimidation. I’ve been in situations where people backed down when the saw muscles flex. I’ve also had a friend tell me that when we first met, I ticked him off and he wanted to kick my butt, but because of my size he decided it wasn’t a good idea. In class, the newbies usually don’t wanna spar me because of my size. Intimidation can go a long way.

14

believe me it does count…

Let’s see. If you are a proficient FIGHTER (martial artist and fighter are not necessarily synonymous) with a regular or slight build, then you got it goin’ on. You might be apt to have to display those skills if the antagonist isn’t intimidated by your physique, though. Then again’ you could probably make him wish he picked another mark, once the action starts, so you do have the very integral “element of surprise” on your hands. Still, limiting your chances for confrontation, is the highest level of MAs.

If you are a proficient fighter with good height and respectable bulk (muscles) then you got one up on the previous cat. Plus, the “art of appearance” can often be a deterrent as was previously mentioned. You don’t wear your fighting prowess on the outside so sometimes people “generalize or stereotype” fighters as being big, tough and athletic looking. They may pick someone else to squabb’ with.

The myth of increasing muscle size=slothness is just ridiculous. Muscles power your body for strength and speed, and done right weightlifting will make you better, faster and stronger. Don’t do powerlifting exercise, and stretch while resting between eac set (30 secs. or <).

Right now I would kick my own ass a year ago, and I was no punk then. Working out entails striking the bags, training in 2-man drills (including BJJ groundwork), iron body and most important weightlifting. Others that train with me feel the same way, and have told me so. Weightlifting is not for the lazy who claim that all they need is MAs. Unless you train 8 hrs. a day for years and years like the Gracie’s then you need weights. Or don’t do it, it ain’t no skin off my back…

15

Personally, I do a bit of barbell work at home to supplement my training.

More than anything else, I find doing weights to be an interesting to twist when my daily training can have me feeling a little bored, and running out of ideas.
(There are only so many drills and forms etc. that you can do!!!)

I can’t see any reason not to do it, and its something I do enjoy! ;o)

Just my 2c

Neurotic

16

omegapoint said:

Muscles power your body for strength and speed, and done right weightlifting will make you better, faster and stronger. Don’t do powerlifting exercise, and stretch while resting between eac set (30 secs. or < ).

Wtf? Why did you say don’t do powerlifting exercise? PL’ing makes you stronger and faster than any other kind of weightlifting.

IronFist

17

I would have thought it just made you stronger but I didnt think it would speed you up, if anything u’d think it would slow you down.

18

Originally posted by IronFist
[B]omegapoint said:

Wtf? Why did you say don’t do powerlifting exercise? PL’ing makes you stronger and faster than any other kind of weightlifting.

IronFist [/B]

Because I’m a doctor and I know better than you. J/K, but what I said makes perfect sense. Every powerlifter I’ve known did have good speed, ups and such, with power; after all most have an abundance of fast-fatigueable fibers. The common deficit incurred from short, quick muscle contractions is LOSS OF FLEXIBILITY. Flexibility is often overlooked. How strong is a rubber band that is thick and inflexible? Probably pretty strong, but if used to propel something, you may not get good distance. How strong is a wrist-rocket (slingshot) that uses flexible and durable surgical tubing? Your fist and feet are being “propelled” in a similar way when you strike. Maybe a better analogy would be a caveman’s “throwing stick”. It would be hard for someone with contracted muscles (a powerlifter) to endure the full extension of an arm or leg-bar.

Powerlifting is bad on the back and joints in the long run. It does make one incredibly strong, but it is hard to transmit this strength to endeavors which require flexible, finesse or supple strength. It is a “specialty” and not a training regimen for athletics per se.

Anyway, dowhatchlike, and “WTF” all day. I’m not gonna be worse off for it. Pick up a good book on A and P (Nettter’s Illustrated text is awesome), and a good book on biomechanics. I was forced to learn this stuff in school, but it has definitely helped me in MAs, too. You know that many of the “masters” were physicians, right?

19

Originally posted by Souljah
I would have thought it just made you stronger but I didnt think it would speed you up, if anything u’d think it would slow you down.

Nope. Not unless you are freakishly huge.

20

Italic quotes by omegapoint

How strong is a rubber band that is thick and inflexible? Probably pretty strong, but if used to propel something, you may not get good distance. How strong is a wrist-rocket (slingshot) that uses flexible and durable surgical tubing? Your fist and feet are being “propelled” in a similar way when you strike. Maybe a better analogy would be a caveman’s “throwing stick”. It would be hard for someone with contracted muscles (a powerlifter) to endure the full extension of an arm or leg-bar.

I’m afraid I don’t understand your last sentences there. A powerlifter has contracted muscles? Maybe while he’s lifting something. Before I comment on this, please clarify what you mean.

Powerlifting is bad on the back and joints in the long run.

Uh… ok there. You pretty much just lost any credibility you may have had with me. What is your justification for saying this? If it is DL’ing or Squating is bad on the back or knees, please don’t bother.

It does make one incredibly strong, but it is hard to transmit this strength to endeavors which require flexible, finesse or supple strength. It is a “specialty” and not a training regimen for athletics per se.

I suppose if ALL someone does is powerlifting, then this may be the case. I don’t understand where you get your information that powerlifters are inflexible, however. While many strongmen choose not to stretch before a workout to promote muscle tension, that does not mean they neglect stretching all together. Nearly every powerlifter I’ve ever seen, professional or recreational, is more flexible than most martial artists I know. I will agree, however, that many forms of strictly powerlifting do not lend themselves well to endurance activities…

Anyway, dowhatchlike, and “WTF” all day. I’m not gonna be worse off for it. Pick up a good book on A and P (Nettter’s Illustrated text is awesome), and a good book on biomechanics. I was forced to learn this stuff in school, but it has definitely helped me in MAs, too. You know that many of the “masters” were physicians, right?

Yeah. I also know that most books are not very accurate. :slight_smile: I’ve read enough of the good ones and talked to enough of the right people to know what I’m talking about, however.

IronFist