[QUOTE=sanjuro_ronin;1167704]You can’t master something without using it dude.[/QUOTE]
Inter -or- outer workings of anything that may need brain power to bring into reality or into the physical realm (the concept of understanding), like reading before writing.
Ali
[QUOTE=Ali. R;1167713]Inter -or- outer workings of anything that may needs brain power to bring into reality or into the physical realm (the concept of understanding), like reading before writing.
Ali[/QUOTE]
Note you said READING, an activity.
I have serious reservations when I hear of MA teachers that keep their students from actually FIGHTING with their MA.
[QUOTE=sanjuro_ronin;1167714]Note you said READING, an activity.
I have serious reservations when I hear of MA teachers that keep their students from actually FIGHTING with their MA.[/QUOTE]
Of course its an activity, but without any physical attributes other then sight and mind to form an understanding. Just like doing the SLT, CK and Wooden Man or drills (developing a good understanding of muscle memory/mental awareness/structural integrity).
I have students that fight all the time, put only when they’re ready.
Ali
[QUOTE=Ali. R;1167718]Of course it’ an activity, but without any physical attributes other then sight and mind to form an understanding. Just like doing the SLT, CK and Wooden Man or drills (developing a good understanding of muscle memory/mental awareness).
Ali[/QUOTE]
Its not a case of either/or, its a case of both, a case of one complimenting the other and development being complete with all facets.
WC is not inferior to other MA nor are WC students ( or teachers) inferior that they need to be “coddled” for years, that’s just silly.
There is nothing complex about WC other than what people MAKE complex.
I tell this here and to anyone:
Wanna make your WC effective and practical?
Test and fight against other systems and you will find ALL the “secrets” that you need to do just that.
That is THE tradition of WC:
Fighting other systems.
[QUOTE=sanjuro_ronin;1167719]Its not a case of either/or, its a case of both, a case of one complimenting the other and development being complete with all facets.
WC is not inferior to other MA nor are WC students ( or teachers) inferior that they need to be “coddled” for years, that’s just silly.
There is nothing complex about WC other than what people MAKE complex.
I tell this here and to anyone:
Wanna make your WC effective and practical?
Test and fight against other systems and you will find ALL the “secrets” that you need to do just that.
That is THE tradition of WC:
Fighting other systems.[/QUOTE]
You have to master each tool in the box, mentally. Because, if its not engraved in your mind first (the understanding), then youll do something different physically. Like spas out and lose something as simple as your stance and center of gravity; then you already lost the fight.
Well, you wouldnt be doing wing chun after you lose your stance away. I hope Im not complicated; if so, could you quote where, and then Ill explain.
Learning wing chun from mistakes an errors (sparring) first, before its truly understood and mastered mentally, is like destroying your Christmas present while unwrapping it before you get it out of the package.
[QUOTE=Ali. R;1167722]You have to master each tool in the box, mentally. Because, if it’s not engraved in your mind first (the understanding), then you’ll do something different physically. Like spas out and lose something as simple as your stance and center of gravity; then you already lose the fight.
Well, you wouldn’t be doing wing chun after you lose your stance away. I hope I’m not complicated; if so, could you quote where, and then I’ll explain.
Learning wing chun from trail an error before it’s truly understood and mastered mentally, is like destroying your Christmas presents while unwrapping it before you get it out of the package.[/QUOTE]
You are trying to master something WITHOUT doing what it is used for, which is the only way to lead to mastery.
That is like trying to be a carpenter by perfecting the hold of the hammer WITHOUT hammering !
[QUOTE=sanjuro_ronin;1167723]You are trying to master something WITHOUT doing what it is used for, which is the only way to lead to mastery.
That is like trying to be a carpenter by perfecting the hold of the hammer WITHOUT hammering ![/QUOTE]
I’m mastering structures and how they connect to my stance, I’m mastering my forms, so my hands can move in second nature with my intent, I’m mastering the lop sao to find the right line change (and many other drills).
I’ll master these things to learn how to spar, while using this system without structural deviation and not resorting to boxing or kickboxing, because I choose to walk away from complete understanding (mentally/physically). There is a time for everything.
Ali
[QUOTE=Ali. R;1167725]I’m mastering structures and how they connect to my stance, I’m mastering my forms, so my hands can move in second nature with my intent, I’m mastering the lop sao to find the right line change (and many other drills).
I’ll master these things to learn how to spar, while using this system without structural deviation and not resorting to boxing or kickboxing, because I choose to walk away from complete understanding (mentally/physically). There is a time for everything.
Ali[/QUOTE]
How can you master these things when to master them they MUST be applied in the dynamic environment that is combat and not pre-arranged and controled VS another WC person, but someone that will NOT “play the same game”.
[QUOTE=sanjuro_ronin;1167729]How can you master these things when to master them they MUST be applied in the dynamic environment that is combat and not pre-arranged and controled VS another WC person, but someone that will NOT “play the same game”.[/QUOTE]
You master its very existence from the stage of what is and then develop its understanding mentally first, from the stage of structural integrity/awareness, then test how well you understand your overall development in each of the training levels after you learn how to spar.
The way I see it; youre saying that you really cant learn anything from the training levels of this system: SLT, CK, WM, unless you just fight with them and drop anything that they have to offer in development. But Im sure theyre called training forms for a reason and Im a strong believer that anything you train in, you should master.
One will have he’s time to spar,
Ali
[QUOTE=Tom Kagan;1163398]And yet, other people’s opinions which differ from yours leave you “totally frustrated”. As for what else you are, your first post in this thread made it clear you currently are a ranting number three in the aforementioned list I posted.
If your style is an effective method of learning to fight, then you and/or your students may want to do a little of it. Since you state you are “always ready” to test your fighting effectiveness and the website you promote in your signature mentions your teachings can be applied to sport fighting scenarios, then presumably it would be a simple matter to provide independent evidence previously collected of numbers one and/or two in the aforementioned list.[/QUOTE]
Sport fighting does not test fighting effectiveness, it more or less tests strength, power, speed, and condition of practitioners, not much room left for the art, that’s why it usually always looks like the same old thing.
If you wanted to test effectiveness, you would see who could get something done with the least amount of energy used.
Cheers
[QUOTE=Robinhood;1167737]Sport fighting does not test fighting effectiveness, it more or less tests strength, power, speed, and condition of practitioners, not much room left for the art, that’s why it usually always looks like the same old thing.
If you wanted to test effectiveness, you would see who could get something done with the least amount of energy used.
Cheers[/QUOTE]
Wow, that was nice, real nice…
If you wanted to test effectiveness, you would see who could get something done with the least amount of energy used.
That is efficiency, not effectiveness. They are not the same.
To test fighting effectiveness, you need to fight people and beat them. The only way to do that legally outside of war is sportfighting.
not much room left for the art,
If you are winning, WGAF.
[QUOTE=Robinhood;1167737]Sport fighting does not test fighting effectiveness, it more or less tests strength, power, speed, and condition of practitioners, not much room left for the art, that’s why it usually always looks like the same old thing.
If you wanted to test effectiveness, you would see who could get something done with the least amount of energy used.
Cheers[/QUOTE]
So your solution is to have fat@$$3$ spar who have no strength, power, speed, or conditioning? See which one wins using the least amount of energy?
Wow - I can see it now. You could start a new competition - and call it the Ultimate F@t@$$ Championships. Not only would you have room left for the art, but also room left for that extra cheeseburger.
:D:D:D
[QUOTE=Robinhood;1167737]Sport fighting does not test fighting effectiveness, it more or less tests strength, power, speed, and condition of practitioners, not much room left for the art, that’s why it usually always looks like the same old thing.
If you wanted to test effectiveness, you would see who could get something done with the least amount of energy used.
Cheers[/QUOTE]
Nonsense to the 1st paragraph
And more of the same in the second.
[QUOTE=sanjuro_ronin;1167676]I think you need to re-read what you wrote there.
Practice is suppose to equal BETTER results and when it doesn’t, practice gets modified.
Basic learning 101.[/QUOTE]
I actually stole it from someone who posted it on facebook lol
but that said, wouldn’t “practice leading to modified practice” still require repetition of the same thing over and over while expecting “different (aka better, since no one practices to get worse)” results? In a Ving Tsun related example, it’s not like someone learns Siu Nim Tao and then trains it for one day and thinks “well, im done with that, time to modify my training to make it more useful.” Just like boxers continue to use tried and proven methods of training to get better (ex: shadowboxing, pad/mitt training, etc), because they know that doing those same things will make them better, at least the way i see it.
also, i dont see how one can realize that their practice has stopped yielding results unless they do something repetitively and see that their most recent practice session was less beneficial relative to previous sessions of training the same thing. but thats just me.
[QUOTE=Ali. R;1167695] Right from the time when you were a little child you can recognize most of the moves and concepts from boxing, grappling, and many other physical ideas when it comes to fighting and sports.
[/QUOTE]
tbh, this isn’t completely true imo. A person may be familiar with boxing and grappling, but even when he puts his hands up in what he “thinks” is a boxing guard, that guard is near useless compared to a real guard, and the same goes with his other offensive and defensive tactics, at least from my experience. Likewise, a person may understand that grabbing someone and manipulating or throwing them is “grappling,” but they have no idea how to use their energy, disrupt the opponents center of gravity/balance/etc, and overall how to utilize their bodies correctly to do the moves they see.
Right from the time when you were a little child you can recognize most of the moves and concepts from boxing, grappling, and many other physical ideas when it comes to fighting and sports.
Oh sure, I recognised the spinunder omoplata from Z guard the first time I saw it.
Yep. I can be a fighter pilot from my flight simulator game on my Mac.
Similarly, I can become a proficient fighter just training my forms and Chi Sau in a dojo.
NOT!!! :rolleyes:
Reality check:
All these energy, efficiency, technique stuff’s fine. But, the guy who gets hit harder is going to fall.
The question is, how to hit and not get hit (much).
[QUOTE=imperialtaichi;1167769]Reality check:
All these energy, efficiency, technique stuff’s fine. But, the guy who gets hit harder is going to fall.
The question is, how to hit and not get hit (much).[/QUOTE]
Exactly John.
And, from the sports fighters book who more than likely hits harder than 99% of WC guys, he’d argue that his one shot KO power is more efficient than multiple hits doing the same thing, which is what the majority of traditionalist would need.