I must say, it’s much better than the video of the old kung fu masters on a rooftop trying to bop each other on the head (surely someone knows which one I’m talking about). I remember a few years back people were trying to claim it was a great display of kung fu technique.
Compared to modern boxing, it is pretty bad
Compare this footage http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eALLe1wghSA&feature=related to modern judo footage
the old “Wu style vs Pak Hok Pai” footage is pretty embarrassing, but it IS within a certain context
if people stop trying to explain away the obvious quality issues, you see something pretty clearly, things get BETTER over time, the idea of “golden ages” is a myth
I believe you are also talking about the “roof top fights”
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CTXtQogCNh4
pretty bad, especially considering the hype you hear about these
I like this one
[QUOTE=Phil Redmond;1121163]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BnMJL36_oCs[/QUOTE]
Watching Jack Johnson you are watching a man using modern technique against the old school brawlers. He was an incredibly intelligent man with a vision. He also had a natural gift
all those embarrasing kung fu fights came from hong kong. i hate that fukin place.
[QUOTE=lkfmdc;1121159]Compared to modern boxing, it is pretty bad
[/QUOTE]
It’s old school boxing. They fought differently cuz they didn’t have gloves. I posted an article about that earlier tonight 
The strategy is different because the game is different.
[QUOTE=lkfmdc;1121160]I believe you are also talking about the “roof top fights”
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CTXtQogCNh4
pretty bad, especially considering the hype you hear about these[/QUOTE]
No, that was 100% better than the one I’m thinking of.
The one I’m thinking of was these two older Chinese men who were said to be masters of their art, competent fighters, although I don’t remember what art(s) they studied.
The chased each other around and tried to bop each other on top of the head with hammer fists. That was like the only strike they used. It was horrible.
Don’t get me wrong; it was cool to see footage of old masters, but I was expecting flowing application of CMA principles (since everyone is always "it takes lots of skill to fight with CMA and have it look like CMA (as opposed to kickboxing or faux boxing)). When CMA people kickbox in sparring sessions, it’s always “oh, those guys are just beginners, they haven’t mastered the techniques/principles yet,” so when it’s masters doing it, you expect to see some kung fu movie type stuff. But this was just two men that looked like they’d never even sparred before, just trying to bop each other on the head.
edit - I think maybe they were Hsing I guys???
edit 2 - I’m looking for it on youtube now. I first saw it posted on this forum years ago. I’m almost positive it was in black and white.
Here’s another bare knuckle kung fu fight from a long time ago, but this isn’t the one I was talking about either. Just posting it here for discussion:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S19VsB7__v0
What’s with keeping the hands down at their sides?
[QUOTE=IronFist;1121172]Don’t get me wrong; it was cool to see footage of old masters, but I was expecting flowing application of CMA principles (since everyone is always "it takes lots of skill to fight with CMA and have it look like CMA (as opposed to kickboxing or faux boxing)).[/QUOTE]
Huh? Who gave you the idea that fighting is ever pretty?
Actually, at least in Shaolin, a lot of the traditional techniques taken directly from the ancient forms look exactly like modern Sanda applications- striking, throws and such.
When you stand up out of your training stances and start applying the techniques, they’re not going to look like your forms anymore. But the applications are the same. Because it looks like kickboxing is no reason to say it is not traditional CMA. You just don’t understand CMA if you’re wanting it to look like the movies.
[QUOTE=LFJ;1121174]Huh? Who gave you the idea that fighting is ever pretty?
Actually, at least in Shaolin, a lot of the traditional techniques taken directly from the ancient forms look exactly like modern Sanda applications- striking, throws and such.
When you stand up out of your training stances and start applying the techniques, they’re not going to look like your forms anymore. But the applications are the same. Because it looks like kickboxing is no reason to say it is not traditional CMA. You just don’t understand CMA if you’re wanting it to look like the movies.[/QUOTE]
Obviously it’s not gonna look like the movies.
If the vid gets posted you’ll see what I mean.
[QUOTE=IronFist;1121171]It’s old school boxing. They fought differently cuz they didn’t have gloves. I posted an article about that earlier tonight
The strategy is different because the game is different.[/QUOTE]
it isn’t quite that linear. There is footage of earlier glove fights, you can definitely see an evolution
[QUOTE=LFJ;1121174]Huh? Who gave you the idea that fighting is ever pretty?
[/QUOTE]
no one who fights expects it to be pretty
but if you look at Wu Kung Yi vs Chan Hak Fu, you have to say “these masters look worse than the beginners in their basic sparring class”
Having known Chan Hak Fu through CTS, we know that he relied totally on forms and the idea of “deadly” prior to the fight but instituted sparring with gloves afterwards
[QUOTE=lkfmdc;1121211]it isn’t quite that linear. There is footage of earlier glove fights, you can definitely see an evolution[/QUOTE]
Well yeah I don’t think it was like “oh, we have gloves. Time to change our stances!”
It was probably more like “whoa… I seem to be able to do this (other technique) now that I am wearing gloves. I’m gonna try it out and see how it works.” And then other people did the same and tried variants of it, and then we ended up with modern boxing, because that’s what worked the best.
Kind of like how modern hockey goalkeeping is different from that of 50-100 years ago.
[QUOTE=IronFist;1121155]I must say, it’s much better than the video of the old kung fu masters on a rooftop trying to bop each other on the head (surely someone knows which one I’m talking about). I remember a few years back people were trying to claim it was a great display of kung fu technique.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NiTXye62mAY[/QUOTE]
It looks like the guy in white shorts was sponsored by Fruit of the Loom! 
[QUOTE=IronFist;1121172]
Don’t get me wrong; it was cool to see footage of old masters, but I was expecting flowing application of CMA principles [/QUOTE]
real kung fu looks like kickboxing
lots of forms have actual fighting stances exagerated or removed
in traditional performance you dont even chamber the fist.
[QUOTE=bawang;1121399]real kung fu looks like kickboxing[/QUOTE]
Good thing they practice fancy techniques in class then
[QUOTE=bawang;1121399]
[SIZE=“5”]real kung fu looks like kickboxing[/SIZE]
[/QUOTE]
here we go!
modern kung fu is worthless because everything is a lie, left is right, up is down.
can u imagine telling an average kung fu guy that in most traditional form performances you did not even chamber the fist?
[QUOTE=lkfmdc;1121159]if people stop trying to explain away the obvious quality issues, you see something pretty clearly, things get BETTER over time, the idea of “golden ages” is a myth[/QUOTE]
Dave,
I think you hit the nail right on the head here. I believe a mid-level fighter from a modern school would probably OWN a master of 50-100 years ago. Training science and methods have come a loooooong way.