Okay - now it’s Dhira’s turn (KenWingJitsu)…to be the inspiration for a thread. He recently posted the following on another thread:
“Now it is true that not enough emphasis has been put on anti-grappling” but it’s beginning to happen (in the UFC). A la Chuck Lidell etc. but the only way to do it is to be comfortable with the grappling in the first place, that way you can defend what’s coming and keep it standing if you want…or stand back up if you’re taken down. It takes grappling skills to be able to do that."
I believe along with Dhira that if you want to stay up on your feet against grapplers who attempt to take you down…you have to have more than striking/kicking/footwork skills - you also have to be comfortable with grappling itself.
Then you can better understand what they’re trying to do and how to counter it.
My french coaches would agree with Dhira. One needs actual experience of trying to stand against hostile takedown attempts from real grapplers. Once you know their game it is not that difficult to stand tall. They did it successfully against their BJJ instructors and classmates many times.
No. Before Gary, I studied WC with Jean Marc Noblot and Chan Keo who came to America to study Machado BJJ at torrance, California. They left America to study BJJ in Brazil now, I think?Here is their French website:
do i really have to learn to grapple or just work my escapes off guys that can grapple if i have no desire to get a submission
Silly wabbit yes you do. When you started to box/kickbox…did you learn to box/kickbox before you defeated those you sparrred with, or did you only try to use “pure” wing chun? Feel me?
do i really need to work locks and holds
Yes you do. 'Specially YOU. Why? Because you’ve never really felt the “sweetness” of “Slapping on” a quick submission. When you do, you’ll see it’s a sweet as dropping somone with an unexpected jab. And your attributes are hard wired for good grappling. You just dont
HKE is sweet on the ground, but guess what…HKE is often the best way to MAKE him give you a submission out of fear and pain (did I make you smile?). A sub can often end it quicker on the ground than repeated HKE bashings.
Ernie asks: “Do I really have to learn to grapple or just work my escapes off guys that can grapple?”
Let’s put it this way - IT starts with learning how to work escapes…beginning with escaping the takedown…and moves on from there.
What is “IT”? (The desire to learn grappling).
Ernie:
“I like to work all my pain tools on the ground: head butt, knee, elbow, and biting…as well as a good choke. To isolate those tools and keep them effective - do I really need to work locks and holds or just spend time getting sensitive and controlling position”?
Well…Spending time getting sensitive and controlling position is a good thing in the beginning…but congratulations! Your desire to learn grappling is growing - since you like putting on a good choke. (Pssst! A choke is a lock! A choke is a hold!)
Now, Ernie…Here’s a quote from someone who just posted the following on another thread:
“Since I have no real ground skills all I can do is cheat. But I want to get very good at cheating. This requires me to develop some ground skills”…
Sounds Like he answered his own question…doesn’t it - grasshopper?
Keep those destructions in your pocket - never give them up (unless you find out later that some of them might be leaving you open) - then change (or drop) those that do.
But those that always seem to work - man…they’re like jewels - treasure those and pull them out whenever necessary or the opportunity arises.
Next…start working on anti-takedown defenses.
Against low single shoots…double-leg shoots…guys flying in to take the middle of your body, etc.
Start with learning how to sprawl - I’m sure Dhira can help you with that.
That’s a biggie.
I’m positive you’ll take to all of this like a fish to water! The sensitivity is already there…from wing chun…from being Ernie.
Tan, bong, fuk are all defensive…right? Isn’t the fasted possible way to do simultaneous attack and defense to simply punch into the line he’s punching on…at a slightly different angle…And if need be - you can still use your other hand with this - in some fashion or another…Or perhaps (if your footwork is good enough) - just respond with a punch on a totally different line than the one he’s using.
So why not make the centerpiece of your response to his punch a strike? Don’t you surrender less territory when doing that? Don’t you start to take more of his territory quicker when you do that?
Originally posted by canglong
[B]Parlati Sifu says the best response to a punch is to punch.
Ernie says the best response to a punch is tan bong fuk.
score one for Ernie,
this round [/B]
I’m not taking sides, but I have to go with Victor. “Fist parries fist” (kuen sho kuen??) is a perfect example of simultaneous attack and defense (lin sil di dar). I’m not saying that you should counter all punches with a punch. Tan, fook, bong may have its place & time; but if I have the option, I’ll choose “fist parries fist”. Why defend if you can attack?
i might be mistaken but i think what tony is getting at is
i’m looking for a wing chun answer for a grappleing question ergo [ tan bong fook ]
victor recommends a grappleing answer for a grappleling question = punch to a punch
but in reality i just want to cheat look at all the dirty stuff that is not allowed and get good at that , thus not needed to pick up a whole system but train enough to interrupt there game and get to my game
thus my interest in short cuts and pain infliction
but like anything i know i have to spend time developing feel in the ‘’ shell ‘’ of there game to understand position and develop a platform to cheat from
yes you do. When you started to box/kickbox…did you learn to box/kickbox before you defeated those you sparrred with, or did you only try to use “pure” wing chun? Feel me?
