Sigh,
NO THEY DON"T !!!
seven, csn: yep, I think it was my statement that seemed to
frustrate the merryprankster. I’m not sure I understand the
frustrated response if I’m agreeing with his opinion.
matt
its not just chinese martial artists who arn’t winning UFC, its karate guys, and taekwondo as well that gets a working over..
you’ve just gotta be realistic about what your training for and why this is happening..
a well trained and fairly large ground fighter will usually be able to slip into a strikers range and take him down, once that happens the striker is in a big pile of trouble..
So, how does a kungfu fighter destroy a purely ground fighter? That would probably rely almost totally on his attack, he must be able to attack the ground fighter and finish him off in 4 - 5 attacks or less.. Is this possible?
We must remember that you cannot run away in the UFC, if you get a good punch in, and the guy falls over, you can’t run away, and leave the situation like you would on a street when you are outnumbered for example..
I like to look at it like this, grapplers RULE (And are undisputed champions) of the Cage match (UFC etc..) because these matches are always 1 vs 1, controlled, and favour submission (in a number of ways)
Strikers are safer at fighting multiple oponents, safer at ending a streetfight before things get nasty and can also be a far superior force to be reckoned with once they are trained with weapons, or to attack pressure points and weak spots
If you wanna win matches, go grappling, if you wanna be a street safe fighter, who can handle himself when sh1t gets nasty go kungfu 
just my 2 thoughts, without trying to generalise 2 much
p.s. most streetfights ive seen are guys getting mugged by 5 - 10 people, and they are purely defensive (ie the guy is trying to run away whilst throwing a few well placed punches)
what the fu|ck would a grappler do? use a takedown ??? HAH
Oops. Sorry guys. 8 hour car trips’ll do that to you…
I was responding to the idea that ringfighters spend their whole lives doing this. The truth is that most of us have jobs and stuff. So we train maybe 4 hours a day, with all the sacrifices that entails. It’s a matter of focus and intensity. I don’t mean training focus… I mean mental focus.
No Ging Mo, the grappler would use his superior ability to move other people to place one of them off balance between him and the bulk of his assailants so he could leave.
Or, he’d bleed a lot. Just like anybody else in a 10 on 1 fight. Or are you going to tell us the secret techniques for fighting 10 people at a time.
Forget 10 how about just 1, with a big knife, are you going to try to take him to the ground?
The MMA thing is soooooo overrated, I can understand if you are not training hard but this…
ShaolinTiger00 posted:
You put a “praying mantis” guy in the ring and even though he’s been training his style for 6 hours a day/ 6 days a week for the last year preparing for the fight. - he’s going to get mauled.
please explain, why would he get mauled?
Skard1
No. I’m going to practice Run-fu, unless I am forced to fight, and then I’m going to look for a weapon. I have no idea how to knife disarm. And quite frankly, neither does anybody else here, despite what they’d like to think.
You get in a knife fight and you’re going to get stuck, period. Unless you’re REALLY lucky. Fancy knife disarms aren’t going to save you. It’s going to be grit, common sense, and controlling the knife hand.
If you’re smart, you’d run too. Kicks and punches are no match for a guy who has a big knife and doesn’t mind using it on you.
“Forget 10 how about just 1, with a big knife, are you going to try to take him to the ground?”
YES!
[B]"
I’m a big fan of movie swordfights. “The Three Musketeers,” “The Duellists,” I love those kind of flicks. A street knife-fight is not a duel. People do not stand at arms-length and thrust and parry, like the duelists in a movie choreographed by William Hobbs, allowing a kick or well-timed parry to disarm the attacker. A KNIFE FIGHT IS A GRAPPLING MATCH!!! Ask any correctional officer you know, as they have the most real-world experience in observing the aftermath of knife fights: A “real” knife fight, as opposed to a “reel” knife fight, is characterized by the knifer closing distance rapidly, crashing in, and thrusting and slashing repeatedly at close range. Your chance of surviving, either standing or on the ground, is going to be based on GETTING CONTROL OF THAT KNIFE ARM and either striking or getting a control hold (Kimura, Americana, Arm bar) what have you. Guess what? You are by definition in a grappling fight. You may get cut, no matter what your strategy, but you can keep going. The knifer will try to close range.
Most people on the street have ZERO ground fighting skills. While standing, they have a rudimentary game plan at best: (“I will strike the other person until they give up or are knocked out. If he tries to strike me, I will either take his punches or try to block them. This plan, though rudimentary, has worked for me since grade school and is in accordance with every action movie/TV show/sporting event I have ever watched.”) Take them to the ground and they will try to get on top and hit you, or, if they can’t be on top, try to get a headlock and hang on ("HEY! I got his head!! I’m WINNING!!!). Begin to establish position, transition to a superior position, overcome resistance and apply a submission, choke, or pin, and they are clueless. You can almost see their brain freeze up, overwhelmed by the rapid transition of events. (In military parlance, you have overwhelmed their OODA (“Observe-Orient-Decide-Act”) cycle).
The ground can be your friend. It limits his movements, allowing joint locking techniques to be far more effective and difficult to escape from than if those joint locks are applied standing, aikido or kung fu-style. If he is on the bottom, it limits his shoulder rotation and hip movement, reducing his ability to effectively strike. If it is not good for one person in a fight to be the one on the ground, then obviously, it is going to be better for the other person. WHY NOT BE THAT OTHER PERSON? " [/B]
“The MMA thing is soooooo overrated”
You soooooo don’t have a clue.
“please explain, why would he get mauled?”
If I have to explain why, its obvious that you just can’t comprehend the weight of it.
“p.s. most streetfights ive seen are guys getting mugged by 5 - 10 people, and they are purely defensive (ie the guy is trying to run away whilst throwing a few well placed punches)”
[b]"Maybe I am the one with friends.
I think the people who believe they have a valid stand-up street defense against multiple attackers saw the fight scene in the park in “Billy Jack” one time too many.
So all you stand-up guys, your solution to group attack is…What? Remaining standing and picking them off one at a time with a flurry of well-placed kicks? Eye jabs, pak sau, and biting?
Here is a base-level truth: Your chances of effectively fighting off a group of determined, coordinated attackers who outnumber you, without a weapon, are slim to none. By “determined and coordinated” I mean a cohesive group with a strong sense of self identity who are used to fighting together. That can mean a biker gang, a squad of Marines out on the town, bouncers who work together, a street gang, a rugby or football team, etc.
How about a group of undetermined and uncoordinated fighters? Your odds open up a bit. Most of you who will say you have beaten multiple attackers probably met the latter group. We’ll call them a “cluster group”. I have seen several occasions where one guy backed down a larger cluster group by serious threat display. In all cases, the group were friends or acquaintances, some members maybe bigger than the lone guy, some of them probably good fighters, but none of them felt strongly enough about their group to risk taking one in the head for the team so everyone else could stomp the guy. No one in a cluster group wants to be the guy who gets teeth knocked out so everyone else can mob the guy. That video of the bad ass skateboarder smacking down and backing down the frat boys that was posted recently on the forum is a textbook example. Examples of cluster groups include guys who know each other from work or school going out for a drink, fans at a sporting event (Soccer hooligans perhaps being the exception), drink- or drug–impaired party goers, or a group in a lynch-mob mentality who don’t know the other members well.
Laying a quick and serious hurting on someone (a broken elbow, strikes from the mount or knee on stomach), the kind that makes onlookers go “Yeeowch!”, may back down a lot of guys, again, from the cluster group. A standing control hold or choke can make people back off until you can get to safety or someone breaks it up. A friend avoided a racially-motivated beat-down from some drunken frat party-goers by grabbing one in a standing rear-naked choke and backing up with him until he could sweep his legs and jump into a friend’s car and get away. (This after taking down another drunk, getting mount, and getting in 3 or 4 punches before anyone reacted.) A Brazilian acquaintance who spent time in prison told me he regularly used the mata leao choke (hadaka jime) in a melee, grabbing his man and then (and he said this is very important…) getting his back to the wall where he wouldn’t be blindsided. he’d break their balance, choke 'em out, then get to safety or grab another.
You may not need to go the ground. Most BJJ guys won’t, on the street. But, as Eric Knauss of the Dog Brothers (stick and knife fighters) says, “Grappling happens. It just does.” Even if you want to stay standing, and use the often taught (and valid) technique of “lining up your attackers”, we live in a world cluttered with rubble. If you don’t get taken down or knocked down, you are still likely to trip or fall. You better have a plan to get someone off you, ESPECIALLY if there are multiple attackers.
People who attack you with a weapon typically don’t attack Olympic track and field medallists, who are already laced up in their Nikes, at one end of a running track. They will probably try to corner or pin you in so escape is not easy. You may be wearing shoes that are hard to run in. You may be on a slippery wet or icy surface. You may not be a good runner. You may be injured or out of breath. Your attacker may be a better runner than you are. You may be with someone you don’t want to leave behind (e.g., your child, wife, or girlfriend) after you yell, “Feets, Do Your Stuff!” and make like a gazelle. In short, you may have to stay and fight. Other than that-try to get out of there as your first option.
"[/b]
That document has come in so handy.. when a moron pulls out the typical “what if” I just cut and paste. shuts 'em up everytime.
Buddy if you got to cut and paste an article thats pretty weak, as for the moron statement, were you speeking to me?
How about answering the question in YOUR words, as I am courious to know why YOU think …
put a “praying mantis” guy in the ring and even though he’s been training his style for 6 hours a day/ 6 days a week for the last year preparing for the fight. - he’s going to get mauled.
just to see if I can “comprehend the weight of it.”
Skard1
I have a cut and paste article, because you are not worth the effort of my typing out a very similar piece of text, lambasting your foolish ideas and proving how ignorant you are about fighting.
and I WAS “speaking” to you.
:rolleyes:
Every time, you morons pull out the same excuses - multiple attackers, a knife, “Real fights aren’t pretty like on the mat. In the street, people bite and claw and eye-gouge!”
Meeow! Phffsst! Meeoww!
ST, what’s the source of the article?
once again, I have to agree w/ MP and his basic summary of
multi-man defence. I’d been curious about your thoughts on
mm. and anyone elses.
just to toss is out in my words: mobility, quick strikes, mobility,
short throws, and get the hell out as fast as possible.
Knife disarms can work but like any other chin na require some
sort of softening up to weaken the muscles of the arm.
step 1 is to control the knife arm, step 2 is to stun the person
or break the arm depending on exactly what level of control you
have over the knife arm, step 3 is the actual disarm which might
have happened in step 2.
matt
Actually there is a pretty good way to disarm if you have the balls. Ever see the movie young guns, or maybe it was young guns 2? Anyway Chavez gets into that fight and the guy goes to stab him with the knife and he sticks his arm out and the knife gets stuck in his arm. Thats a good trick. It works some of the time too, and you have to figure, your gonna get stuck anyway right? So why not just let him stick you so you can get the knife away from him?
The whole multiple opponent thing gets dull. A one on one fight is alot of luck in the first place. You walk away from a mutliple attacker scenario on top and you are either the luckiest son of a beyotch or your tougher then snot. I’ve seen a few videos where this guy fights so many people blah blah blah but truth be told, those guys attacking him weren’t serious about it. Ask anyone who has to work in a hospital or a prison if one guy can take 10 and they will tell you…
Personally I don’t give much thought to it, if I am in that situation, I am going to run like hell or pray they dont kill me and try to do as much damage as I can as I go down.
However, just so you know, I will not scream like a girl.
Talk about dodging questions,
Shaolin Tiger, your a Fu(king fool, do I sound like some little troll, you opinion is only an opinion, not all of us fight like Ralek, give it up, you might be the one who needs to be “skooled” on how ignorant you are about fighting, simple question that you couldn’t answer, thanks for the response, chump.
Skard1
r5a, screaming like a girl is an integral part of mm defense:
it’s harder for them to chase you if they are laughing.
but, back to the point, Running is always the first option if it’s
there. Always. But, don’t you think you should at least think
about strategy/tactics for mm?
I am going to run like hell or pray they dont kill me and try to do as much damage as I can as I go down.
well, sure…this is intention, which is the same as mine.
I like to think about that cartoon of the frog holding the crane
by the throat, from the inside.
now, more jocularity so Skarbromantis and ST don’t go for each
others throats
do I sound like some little troll
-Worse. Trolls are usually baiting you with a tidbit of credibility. You have nothing.
you opinion is only an opinion
-Some opinions are more valid than others.
not all of us fight like Ralek
-I’d wager money that a traditional praying mantis guy would fight worse!
you might be the one who needs to be “skooled” on how ignorant you are about fighting
I’ve been schooled. Everything I talk about is practical, based on full contact fighting with skilled opponents and based fully on sound principles. You know nothing.
simple question that you couldn’t answer
Stupid question that I didn’t want to answer is more accurate.
Since it is so important to you as to “why would mantis-man get mauled?” I’ll keep it simple.
He lacks the proper skill set. He knows nothing of groundwork, little to nothing on takedowns or throws, his striking is suspect and that may be his best asset.. in fact his only hope would be to crosstrain with full contact fighters in hopes that he could find something similar in his style.
LMAO can you see a guy dropping into those ridiculous mantis stance and finger pointing downward? I can, right as Silva breaks his leg or Minatauro double legs him and snaps off an armbar.
You use mantis boxing, he no can defend!!
no, really, it’s true, it’s true…
I have to go and rub my side now, it hurts from LMFAO
Like I said… thanks for the response, chump.
Skard1
Fortunately, we are “chumps” who have forgotten more about fighting than you will probably ever see…
but have a nice day
LKFMDC
fellow chump “steve” - for more humor please see " obsession with competition"..
Originally posted by ShaolinTiger00
[ his striking is suspect and that may be his best asset.. in fact his only hope would be to crosstrain with full contact fighters in hopes that he could find something similar in his style.
[/B]
There was a fighter trained in mantis and Baji by Su Yu Chang who competed very successfully in Muaythai. Here is a link
http://members.tripod.com/~crane69/index6t.htm
I never actually saw his fights so i cant really say much about what it would say about the striking of mantis.
Skarbromantis…
Well said. I too get sick of the same recycled crap from both sides.
ShaolinTiger…
He lacks the proper skill set. He knows nothing of groundwork, little to nothing on takedowns or throws, his striking is suspect and that may be his best asset..
Nothing personal, but you’ve never seen much mantis have you?
It does show, especially the bit about takedowns, throws and suspect striking. The bit about groundwork I’ll give you.
I am no expert on Mantis. I often spar a mantis friend and he probably has a better ability to take down and throw than almost anyone I’ve ever crossed hands with.
Sick of the generalisations. Sick of the bullsh!t. Sick of this thread.
Parting thought: If all the MMA people (who are so vastly superior to us KF people) disrespect Kung Fu so much and are so easily able to defeat us, why the fu(k are you here? Go hang out with your own kind and swap stories of how undefeatable you are. The guy who started this post wrote one of the stupidest things I’ve seen here for a long time (and that’s saying something) but the stupidest thing you can possibly write is MMA vs fu(king anything.
Feeling too much contempt for the whole issue to even finish posting :mad: