Training to old age

Wai Jia: The Kung Fu Forum Wing Chun
21

Originally posted by sihing
[B]Boxing is yes a “Sweet Science” but is power based and speed based, Roy Jones JR is a perfect example of speed based and Tyson is the example of Power based. Both of these athletes had natural attributes in these areas, and trained them to the optimum. Once both of these fighters realized that there natural athleticism would not keep them on the top(Both fighters have recently realized this) they tried to rely on their boxing “skills” to which we all know today the result.

sure - in a competitive venue with other guys - younger guys who are training just as hard, if not harder. Here’s the question though - with your current training and skill level, can YOU beat either of them?

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Sevenstar,
The question never was could I BEAT them…I’m not a competitive fighter and I’ve stated many times on this forum what I consider my “Fighting” level to be, my attribute lies in self-defense, and in my mind there is a difference between the two. I never began my training or continued to do so to become a prized fighter, but if either Roy Jones or Mike Tyson was going to hurt anyone in my family or loved ones then I wouldn’t really care about what they did in their pasts, although I would use every dirty trick in the book to defeat them. Boxing wise I would get destroyed quickly by these two “PROFESSIONALS” in the ring. Notice the word professional…

Vajramusti,
It’s well known why Tyson was so successful. In the beginning of his career they put him against people that they knew he could defeat, to build his confidence. The outcome was by the time he stepped into the ring for the Heavy Weight Championship of the World, his opponent was psyched out by his renowned punching power, but I will admit I was impressed by his head movement and ability to put together his combinations, and yes for a heavyweight he did have speed, but not Ali speed per say. After a time at the top his c0ckiness got to him and he decided to start taking people lightly, therefore his training regimen decreased in intensity and the result was he didn’t have the tools he needed to stay on top. Going to jail didn’t help either. After that and his original trainer Gus D’Amato dying, he was never the same fighter, he had power, and probably always will, its natural for him, but his skills as a good boxer are gone…

As for Roy Jones JR, people would criticise him for his unorthodox boxing methods but his natural abilities got him by, and his incredible speed help tremendously too. The fighters he fought would be more worried about getting hit 5X in a second than their own strategies so they were never able to pull it off, I too would be worried if I was in the ring with him, loll. After his first defeat, as always, the mystic of him being unbeatable was gone and the fighters had more confidence with him. He’s been knocked out twice now in the last year, coincidence or ???.

My whole point of using these two athletes was to show two examples of people most of us know and recognize. It’s undeniable that if these fighters fought for a lifetime that their individual strategies would change due to their natural physical attributes failing them as they aged. This does not mean that they wouldn’t be able to fight. If you train in anything for a prolonged period of time (like years) then you will have the ability to use it to some degree for sure, but not at the pro level that these guys are used to. Wing Chun, at least to me is much different. And I use myself as a example, I don’t train nearly as much as I used to but my skill in the art is higher than it was when I received my instructors certificate years ago. How do I know this? From others observations and my own, I can see the improvement in everything. Yes my stamina is not the same, but my senses are keener and the speed of my movement is faster and more precise, and most importantly I am wiser in the art and more experienced with it in my body, therefore I move with more efficiency and effectiveness.

Allot of the reason why I believe in this so much, besides my own experiences in Wing Chun, is what I was told by my Sifu all my years of training. Sifu has gone through the training like a mad man syndrome much more than I. Without bragging about Sifu’s abilities and training, I will say that he basically took what the best of the best in the MA/Fighting arts were doing in that era and doubled all of it, meaning 12 to 14hr training days, for years at a time. After doing this and sustaining some minor injuries and exposure/training in the WC system, both WSL and Cheung versions, he realized that one does not necessarily need ultra strength and speed to fight effectively, and that ultimately the brain is the perfect weapon if it wants to be.

James

23

Interjected comments in brackets on parts of sihings post:

Vajramusti,
It’s well known why Tyson was so successful. In the beginning of his career they put him against people that they knew he could defeat, to build his confidence.
((Not peculiar to Tyson’s case. All good managers do that. But not all are successful.))

The outcome was by the time he stepped into the ring for the Heavy Weight Championship of the World, his opponent was psyched out by his renowned punching power,

((Ernie Shavers was/is pne of the hardest hitters ever. He never became the undisputed champion))

but I will admit I was impressed by his head movement and ability to put together his combinations, and yes for a heavyweight he did have speed, but not Ali speed per say.

((I have nothing but admiration for Ali- but Tyson was no slouch on speed. Because of his muscular appaearnce- it is easy to underestimate his speed. He wasa fairly short armed heavyweight- but his speed was deceptive ))

After a time at the top his c0ckiness got to him and he decided to start taking people lightly, therefore his training regimen decreased in intensity and the result was he didn’t have the tools he needed to stay on top.

((In part. He was/ is a small heavyweight. Size matters(more so in boxing and wrestling)- Buster Douglas, Lennox Lewis- towered over him.))

Going to jail didn’t help either.

((he is hardlya model human being- but neither is/was Mayorga, Mayweather, Corrales, Duran, Graziano etc. Diogenes would have a difficult night with his lamp looking for moral greatness in competitive professional or quasi professional sports.))

After that and his original trainer Gus D’Amato dying, he was never the same fighter, he had power, and probably always will, its natural for him, but his skills as a good boxer are gone…

((Not just DAmato- he walked away from kevin Rooney, Teddy Atlas- and fell for cronies. Plus- a key is- his legs are gone and in boxing dem are important))

As for Roy Jones JR, people would criticise him for his unorthodox boxing methods but his natural abilities got him by,

((What? Every top notch boxer has his unique approach. You dont get to the top witha cookie cutter. Not just natural abilities- Jones is a very smart boxer. Moving his weight— welter, middle, light heavy, heavy then back down can cause some problems.
But credit is due to his two winning opponents. Styles make differences. Tarver is a southpaw- Jones has had pproblems with southpaws and his last opponent crowded him on the inside
incessabtly and
trained for it. Jones should retire- not because he is over the hill- but to save his head for the future. He has enough money.
BTW his record is better than the MMA folks people talk about Sakuraba, Coleman, Smith- fame is fleeting))

My whole point of using these two athletes was to show two examples of people most of us know and recognize. It’s undeniable that if these fighters fought for a lifetime that their individual strategies would change due to their natural physical attributes failing them as they aged. This does not mean that they wouldn’t be able to fight. If you train in anything for a prolonged period of time (like years) then you will have the ability to use it to some degree for sure, but not at the pro level that these guys are used to. Wing Chun, at least to me is much different. And I use myself as a example, I don’t train nearly as much as I used to but my skill in the art is higher than it was when I received my instructors certificate years ago. How do I know this? From others observations and my own, I can see the improvement in everything. Yes my stamina is not the same, but my senses are keener and the speed of my movement is faster and more precise, and most importantly I am wiser in the art and more experienced with it in my body, therefore I move with more efficiency and effectiveness.

((Smart people adjust to the seasons in any activity. But I agree with you that the wing chun learning curve is a long one- it starts slower than some sports- but the benfits last longer.))

Allot of the reason why I believe in this so much, besides my own experiences in Wing Chun, is what I was told by my Sifu all my years of training. Sifu has gone through the training like a mad man syndrome much more than I. Without bragging about Sifu’s abilities and training, I will say that he basically took what the best of the best in the MA/Fighting arts were doing in that era and doubled all of it, meaning 12 to 14hr training days, for years at a time. After doing this and sustaining some minor injuries and exposure/training in the WC system, both WSL and Cheung versions, he realized that one does not necessarily need ultra strength and speed to fight effectively, and that ultimately the brain is the perfect weapon if it wants to be.

(( I will stay away from sifu sez…))

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Thanks for your responses Joy, except I take issue with the Sifu seez stuff. Listen, if you are looking to achieve a goal in any endeavor then a mentor is one of the first things you should do to gain advice and guidance. Even the Bible talks about finding the wise one in the community to learn and get advice from. Sifu has been this for me exactly and more. At present date he has approximately 27yrs more experience than I in the MA, so why would I not listen to what the man has to say and take it as a form of truth? They say experience is the best teacher, wrong! Someone else’s experience is the best teacher first because he/she can show you how to reach the goal faster, and avoid the mistakes along the way, then after you gain some experience yourself you can combine the two. I have no problem saying SIFU SAYS, on this forum or to anyone listening else where.

James

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he realized that one does not necessarily need ultra strength and speed to fight effectively, and that ultimately the brain is the perfect weapon if it wants to be.

Well that’s great, but I think older guys in a wide range of martial arts, like Helio Gracie (not many WC greats of the past lived to his age), the 70 year old wrestler I talked about earlier, Gogen Yamaguchi, etc. would have told you the same thing about their arts. You seem intent on denying the possibility that any art other than WC has the attributes that you discuss, when it just ain’t true.

My first instructor, David Crook, who’s been around longer than Brain Lewadny and by the sound of things trained just as hard, was the son of a British Army boxing champion. His Dad got mugged in London aged 80+ by two guys in their twenties, one of whom he KO’d and the other he chased into a public toilet where the would be mugger locked himself in a cubicle and refused to come out until the cops arrived. If you think old boxers can’t fight, and if you think boxers don’t understand good body mechanics and efficiency, you are dead wrong.

Without bragging about Sifu’s abilities and training

Yeah, right, you showed amazing self restraint :stuck_out_tongue:

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Originally posted by sihing
Sevenstar,
The question never was could I BEAT them…I’m not a competitive fighter and I’ve stated many times on this forum what I consider my “Fighting” level to be, my attribute lies in self-defense, and in my mind there is a difference between the two. I never began my training or continued to do so to become a prized fighter, but if either Roy Jones or Mike Tyson was going to hurt anyone in my family or loved ones then I wouldn’t really care about what they did in their pasts, although I would use every dirty trick in the book to defeat them. Boxing wise I would get destroyed quickly by these two “PROFESSIONALS” in the ring. Notice the word professional…

which is my point. People are saying that they can’t box as a form of exercise and/or self defense into X age and basing on the fact that their competitive career may or may not be over by x age. I see a flaw there.

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Sihing sez:Thanks for your responses Joy, except I take issue with the Sifu seez stuff. Listen, if you are looking to achieve a goal in any endeavor then a mentor is one of the first things you should do to gain advice and guidance. Even the Bible talks about finding the wise one in the community to learn and get advice from. Sifu has been this for me exactly and more.

(( I have nothing but respect for my sifu in a very traditional sense.
But in conversations on forums, or apllications and understanding
I am on my own. I dont hold anyone responsible for my interpretations or misinterpretaions. Standard author’s not uncommon caveat. I dont see what the issue is- difference in perspectives perhaps?)))

Seven Star sez:
People are saying that they can’t box as a form of exercise and/or self defense into X age and basing on the fact that their competitive career may or may not be over by x age. I see a flaw there

((People? Not me. Three points-

  1. If no damge to reflexes and mind and health takes place- there
    can be effective carry over after comtetitive days for some.
    For many others there is a sad decline- if they have competed a lot.

  2. Real sports competition and learning wing chun and how to use it dont necessarily involve the same goals as Ray has pointed out several times.

  3. IMO- I respect boxers and grapplers- but (note) in my opinion the depth and effective shelf life of well taught and learned wing chun is greater.
    Views can vary. Opinions on forums are free.)))

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Wow
This thread is very entertaining

Lets see we have people discussing boxing and the longevity of boxing ,
Yet they don’t box [ with the exception of Joy ]
They have not trained with or like boxers for any given time
They have not stepped foot in a boxing gym and seen how many old boxers are still training to just stay in shape
Funny opinions with no first hand facts

I know a lot of 50 plus boxers that never had big carriers or are professionals in other carriers and boxing/kickboxing is just a hobby or outlet .
They’re in great shape and tough as nails ,
They’re not walking around broken or with spit catchers on because of brain damage [ got to love how people jump to extreme conclusions when it suits there needs ]
How do they do this you might ask
Simple they tune down the hard core training and work lighter and smarter , if you every get brave enough to walk into a pro boxing gym you will see the professional fighters don’t go all hard core either they hit light and work on timing being relaxed improving there ‘’ dare I say it ‘’ skill
These guys are like thoroughbreds they can’t afforded injuries there lives depend on being in good shape , sure when there getting ready for a fight and in the fight they go all out , but so would you.

But the prep work , the training can be done for as long as you like ,
Boxing is not pounding a heavy bag with all your might then jumping in a ring and getting your head knocked around , sure it can be for the silly people out there .
But there is a lot more non-hard impact training focus mitts , road work , speed and double end bag , light sparring to cultivate timing , proper mechanics to cultivate power release , sensitivity to learn to roll shots , the list goes on and on

I see more Doctors , lawyers , business men and woman 40 and up doing boxing and kick boxing then in any martial art , and they look and feel great , the gym I trained at for 5 years was based on executive boxing and kick boxing , not tae bo junk but full boxing set up , ring time bag work solo training and sparring , they hired professional fighters to come in and train people , sure it was pricey but man that place was and still is packed

Even the Thai camp that was there was packed with 40,50 and 60 year olds , hell they were the only ones that could afforded it !
Just to show an example of interest they also offered tai chi and yoga

The tai chi class was dead

The yoga and Pilates classes did well

So this little argument about training when you’re old and there actually being lines drawn in the sand just bust me up .

The only thing you need to do is train smart , be honest with what you can or can not do and respect your body

you can train in what ever you like maintain health and skill for your entire life

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Ernie sez:

The only thing you need to do is train smart , be honest with what you can or can not do and respect your body

you can train in what ever you like maintain health and skill for your entire life

I agree with that-
but my personal choice is wing chun- you discover new tool boxes all the time. Wing chun is not limited to a single tool box.

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Joy I agree

but this is also true with boxing , kick boxing what ever , the more you do something the better at it you get and the more you learn about it ,

sure I’m with you on the wing Chun idea

but this could be any art

that’s why I find it funny when people use different training systems to try and compare and knock one over the other if they have not spent the time learning all there is about the other

I have ran into enough people from different arts that are just as excited about what they do and are learning and evolving all the time

personally I have enough trust in myself and what I do that there is no need to compare or try and tear down some one else’s art
to make mine look better

that being said I am hard on my fellow wing Chun people , because they seem to drift so far from reality

this thread for example
:smiley:

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Originally posted by Ernie
[B]Simple they tune down the hard core training and work lighter and smarter , if you every get brave enough to walk into a pro boxing gym you will see the professional fighters don’t go all hard core either they hit light and work on timing being relaxed improving there ‘’ dare I say it ‘’ skill
These guys are like thoroughbreds they can’t afforded injuries there lives depend on being in good shape , sure when there getting ready for a fight and in the fight they go all out , but so would you.

But the prep work , the training can be done for as long as you like ,
Boxing is not pounding a heavy bag with all your might then jumping in a ring and getting your head knocked around , sure it can be for the silly people out there .[/B]

That’s why some people who have done Wing Chun most of their life or have been very competitive in other martial arts like Judo, are happy later with just forms, drills, chi sau and light sparring. When they were young, their bodies could take a lot of abuse and healing was quicker but after a certain age it seems to take forever to heal anything. And so a more sensible toned down way to train is just plain smart.

However some of the threads by say Terrence (I could be mistaken - reading him wrong?) seem to say that unless you are training to take someone’s head off in the gym then that training is completely useless and has nothing to do with martial arts or realistic self defense. Some people just don’t agree with that and so we spin around in circles all day long getting nowhere and talking about very little in Wing Chun. Almost every thread, no matter the topic, can be answered by “have you proved it in the ring against real fighters? If not, then you have nothing to say.”

For me it’s simple. If your body can take it and if you are the right age then go for it, mix it up with Thai boxers, BJJ or anyone. Later on you have to tone it down and at that time there is plenty of stuff to work on for your body and mind in the Wing Chun system.

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I agree that boxing, and especially kickboxing due to the leg involvement is a great way to stay in shape, probably one of the best ways, I’ve never said otherwise, its just for practical purposes, I believe the practitioners of boxing lose more effectiveness as they age because of the arts reliance on speed and strength attributes, as compared to WC. I guess if we were a traditional WC school in the strict sense there would be no conditioning/cardio classes, but we do have them and they are very popular as they exercise every part of your body, the only difference is we use only WC punches in the routines which includes bag work, focus mitt work, calisthenics, stretching, with high kicks practiced in a more traditional form (meaning not strict WC form). People love what it has done for them and swear by the results of workouts such as these.

I think one of the problems in the WC world is that people put too much faith in the total effectiveness of the art and become lazy physically and think oh, I never have to do stuff like kickboxing type workouts because my technique is so perfect. In training and learning the art you have to do these things to train your body to fight through and continue to go on when you don’t really feel like it. You have to supplement this type of training with the specific skill training drills and practices that we have to complete the process. I do believe though that you don’t always have to continue in that way throughout your training career, once it is there and you have the skill you will be able to maintain it allot easier, stamina will deteriorate but the other attributes won’t.

James

33

a more traditional form (meaning not strict WC form)
Ah, so that explains what the traditional in TWC means then.

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Well I’m from the 10%, 90% camp
10% hardcore , this can be hard sparring or hardcoreing a training or conditioning system , were you push and test yourself beyond the comfort zone
90% light training , sensitivity , timing , solo stuff , body mechanic , and weapons

the build up from the light to the hard should be progressive , intensity in increments
the goal is to have finesse during the hard session , not just have a sloppy emotional wrestling match

in the end you should be able to stay light when some one is going all out
this would equate to functional skill

of course you could go 50/50 and learn a lot faster but you would pay a physical price [ I’m sitting here with a torn bicep and golf ball lumps on my shin from a hard training match ]

yet even in my crippled condition I can do all the wing Chun I want [ why I gravitate to WC ]
I heard James say wing chun is not about speed and strength yet all fighting is , wing chun just does it differently , strength comes from structure and position , speed comes from position , timing , and directness

You can’t move slow and weak if some one else is coming hard and fast , sure you can have great timing and be more efficient so you move at the right time with the right speed but that’s true with any art

A lot of these wing chun misconceptions are just marketing ploy’s to pack schools and tell the 90 pound weakling he can kick sand in the face of the huge body builder . and these lies go on UN tested year after year generation after generation , always quoting what the next man can do not what you can honestly do

This stuff makes me sad

Thus the 10% hardcore this keeps me honest , those with out any hardcore tend to drift into the land of disillusion and deceit

Now what one perceives as hardcore may vary and there will come a time when your spirit may no longer even what to deal with that , so you must just be honest and admit it , still train to be happy but no longer form opinions on fighting since you have pulled yourself out of that environment
But one can still offer information on teaching and training from the wisdom and experience they have gained

I honestly feel it’s each generations job to update and prove the training system , as does Gary he told me he did his job fighting in his time and now teaching and developing the system in his older years based on his experience , but it’s my job to take it further no just leach of his information and sit on my butt and pretend his achievements were my own .

This places the responsibility on the next generation and keeps things honest

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Originally posted by YongChun
[B]That’s why some people who have done Wing Chun most of their life or have been very competitive in other martial arts like Judo, are happy later with just forms, drills, chi sau and light sparring. When they were young, their bodies could take a lot of abuse and healing was quicker but after a certain age it seems to take forever to heal anything. And so a more sensible toned down way to train is just plain smart.

However some of the threads by say Terrence (I could be mistaken - reading him wrong?) seem to say that unless you are training to take someone’s head off in the gym then that training is completely useless and has nothing to do with martial arts or realistic self defense. Some people just don’t agree with that and so we spin around in circles all day long getting nowhere and talking about very little in Wing Chun. Almost every thread, no matter the topic, can be answered by “have you proved it in the ring against real fighters? If not, then you have nothing to say.”

For me it’s simple. If your body can take it and if you are the right age then go for it, mix it up with Thai boxers, BJJ or anyone. Later on you have to tone it down and at that time there is plenty of stuff to work on for your body and mind in the Wing Chun system. [/B]

I agree with you Ray here. I was just thinking of Terence’s response when Ernie mentioned that the older retired boxers “Toned” down their training routines. So, I guess from my interpretation of Terence’s opinions also, he would have to assume that means these gentlemen can’t fight anymore, because they don’t fight, right? Awhile back on this forum I made a statement about boxers and how they don’t spar that much, and then all of a sudden I got flamed for it and people coming back saying that boxers fight and spar all the time full out. Now we are hearing something different?? Go figure. I don’t know any boxers personally but just using simple logic, do you think it would be wise to actually go out and spar full out on a daily basis? Wouldn’t the chance of getting hurt, even by accident, be higher? Cuts, sprains, pulls, etc. Yes, going in the ring and sparring lightly is fine, to work on the timing and just moving around with the other guy to gauge distance and shadow spar per say, would be a smarter thing to do for the majority of the weekly schedule, sparring full out maybe a couple of times. Jeez, even the “unbeatables” like Foremen and Tyson had accidental hits during all out sparring sessions forcing the fights to be delayed.

Ernie
Good post, and I agree with lots of what you said, 90% 10% sounds like a great starting point and some may tweak it a bit depending on their own individual goals. As for the speed and strength thing, you do need this, and yes you can’t fight a person going full out using neither of these two attributes, but like you mentioned WC interpretation of it is different for the reasons you wrote in your post. My interpretation of the spirit of WC is this, when the opening is there or the fight is on, do whatever you do as quickly & powerfully as possible. You can’t punch slowly after the trap or technique is applied to adhere to the simultaneous attack/defense philosophy, the opening will be gone in less than a half second. Everything is like this in WC, combined with non-telegraphic movement that is very short and the opponent shouldn’t even have the opportunity to see it coming. Things like this make WC so effective, but yes I too see it in class at times with students posing and analyzing every move they make, their timing is way off and they end up having little faith in the concept being taught because they do not understand at times the basic idea of putting the proper spirit behind it all.

James

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Originally posted by YongChun
[B]That’s why some people who have done Wing Chun most of their life or have been very competitive in other martial arts like Judo, are happy later with just forms, drills, chi sau and light sparring. When they were young, their bodies could take a lot of abuse and healing was quicker but after a certain age it seems to take forever to heal anything. And so a more sensible toned down way to train is just plain smart.

However some of the threads by say Terrence (I could be mistaken - reading him wrong?) seem to say that unless you are training to take someone’s head off in the gym then that training is completely useless and has nothing to do with martial arts or realistic self defense. Some people just don’t agree with that and so we spin around in circles all day long getting nowhere and talking about very little in Wing Chun. Almost every thread, no matter the topic, can be answered by “have you proved it in the ring against real fighters? If not, then you have nothing to say.”

For me it’s simple. If your body can take it and if you are the right age then go for it, mix it up with Thai boxers, BJJ or anyone. Later on you have to tone it down and at that time there is plenty of stuff to work on for your body and mind in the Wing Chun system. [/B]

I don’t think that’s what it is (but I can’t speak for terence). I think the general sentiment is that at some point in a MAs time, he needs to test himself. If you don’t, then you are not really sure what you are capable of. Also, there are lessons learned from contact training

As far as toning it down at an old age, there is plenty to work on in sport arts too. that is not unique to WC. As I’ve said several times, one of my judo coaches is 75. I know someone who fought full contact to celebrate their 50th b-day. Helio has already been mentioned also. There is plenty to do in bjj, judo, thai, etc. - enough to last a lifetime.

37

IMO you are absolutely correct Ernie - training to progress yourself and your art.

A real problem in WCK is that many have the feeling the art is perfect. Perfectly complete, perfect in the old training methods, perfect in its stories of Yip Man ‘supposedly’ kicking a.rse, blah blah blah.

No testing, no questioning, lots of theoretical clap-trap, based largely on the Sifu-says mentality.

The question is where will Wing Chun be in 20 years time?

38

Sevenstar,
Terence has often stated that if you don’t fight you can’t fight, on a continous basis. And when someone says they fight, then Terence usually comes back with the line “Yeah but who? What caliber of opponent was it” or something along that line. All of us here realize that if you never test your skills you may not have them when needed and you will not learn the art to a completion.

James

39

Originally posted by Ernie
I heard James say wing chun is not about speed and strength yet all fighting is , wing chun just does it differently , strength comes from structure and position , speed comes from position , timing , and directness

are you saying you don’t think this also applies to boxing?

40

I know I’m not Ernie, but I would like to take a stab at answering this one also…Boxing does use all these things, structure, timing, distancing and positioning, but so differently than WC. Wing Chun in essence does not require as much physical speed from its practitioners as compared to most MA/Fighting arts due to its fast structure. For example, WC’s Man-sao/Wu-sao structure in guard vs most boxing type guards. Usually both advise to keep the hands up, correct? In my WC our lead Man-sao is approx. 3/4 of the way out extended, with the fingers nose height, forearm/inner elbow down centerline. Most boxers do not have their lead hand that far out. So if we were to line up facing one another whose lead hand would be closer to each other’s face/nose? WC’s lead hand should be closer, therefore it has less distance to travel to reach its target, NOSE. Also, WC practitioners are more adapt to generating power with out a retraction of the hand, using forward body movement (just think about moving any heavy object with your body from one point to another, you wouldn’t go to the side of it and push it with your arm only, you would get down the center of it with your hands close to your center and push from there), combine this with the opponents own forward momentum and you increase the power of the punch. This example alone shows the efficient use of the body and the use of proper positioning of the practitioner in relation to the opponent and the practitioners own body structure, forcing efficient movement from the start.

Also, the non twisting hip/shoulder concept of WC allows us to move and attack at the same time, therefore pursuit and retreat can be done simultaneously with chain punches and with power. Boxers have a hard time chasing and attacking with their power punches because they use a twist or rotating hip/shoulder concept to generate power, this requires more time to set up and is less efficient than the WC way. And you almost never see a boxer retreat and punching at the same time.

James