Training for "The Street"

Wai Jia: The Kung Fu Forum Mixed Martial Arts
21

[QUOTE=Knifefighter;731173]I guess, according to your “point”, the military doesn’t need to train its personnel.. only those guys who want to train.

But that is another thread. This one is to discuss insights learned from training with multiple opponents and/or weapons in a realistic manner.[/QUOTE]

no, that’s not it at all.

the military trains their personnel to be able to keep up with the unit, carry what they have to carry, shoot when they need to shoot and attack and defend themselves and their positions, but, all the training in the world is only that. “training”.

IE: you cannot prove that one thing is better than another for training for the street because a black belt in this or that can be bested by a drunken piky with a 2x4 when the stars are right.

so don’t try to train for something that may never happen, it’s a watse of time and effort.

training for me is to have purpose and intention in physical ability to defend myself or someone else if need be. also, the health benefits are great. but i don’t portend to think that I am invulnerable from anything. And training is not about making yourself a thicker wall, it’s about building a better city altogether.

22

[QUOTE=cjurakpt;731177]
personally, I am most concerned with the INITAL contact: how do you establish control as soon as possible? for example, a principle based approach might suggest you try to control the knife user’s elbow / upper forearm with both hands as opposed to at the wrist, because you limit degrees of freedom more, have better control over the center of mass, and have a better chance getting your hands on that area in general, versus grabbing a wrist / hand (comments on this?); this is what I’d practice the most - 'cause if you don’t have that control, there’s no point in really practicing follow up stuff anyway…

environmental training is critical - getting out into “the street” and learning how to improvise using cars, garbage cans, lamposts, other people as barriers (ok, well, maybe not lamposts); also learning not to run into oncoming traffic when fleeing from an assailant - little things like that; another thing that people rarely take into account: what would you do if you were with your family? holding your baby? obviously, you don’t want to fight in those situatioons, but what if you had no choice? (oh, and how do you train KNOWING that you don’t have any choice?)
[/QUOTE]
Are these things you are training or is this just theory?
If it is the former, would you like to comment on the specific insights you have gained?

23

[QUOTE=rogue;731174]These days I train mostly what would be called self defense so I’ll give it a go.[/QUOTE]
What are some of the insights technically or tactically that you have gained from this?

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[QUOTE=Knifefighter;731182]Are these things you are training or is this just theory?
If it is the former, would you like to comment on the specific insights you have gained?[/QUOTE]

admittedly, unortunately, the latter at this point - my opportunities for actually working this sort of thing are signifiantly limited given the current logistics of my life (working full-time, 2 year-old son, wife in last year of medical residency - you do the math) - however, as it is something that I hope to pursue in the not too distant future (wife’s residency ends in June, her starting salary moer than 2x what I could ever make, I’m taking a sabbatical!), I think it’s worth “theorizing” about, if for no other reason than to develop relatively more appropriate mental constructs than what I was taught all those years ago when I trained in white pajamas;

so for now, I guess I am piggybacking, throwing out notions that seem reasonable based on current information available - hopefully I’ll have more to contribute actively at some point (Ross and I were talking about trying to do some “live” weapons stuff at some point, hopefully that will become a reality); that said, I am curious about whether these seem reasonable concepts…

25

To build on David Jamieson’s point,

I don’t think there is anything in either MMA training or CMA training (or ANY training, really) that can fully adequetely train anyone for a real life, violent street encounter. The only possible exception to that would be training your killer instinct so you can switch it on in a split second the moment that you need it.

I feel that at least 90% of surviving a truly violent street encounter is being able to switch this on at will. Bear in mind here, I’m not talking about some drunk a$$hole that is giving you grief on your way home. I’m talking about something like 2 or 3 charged up desperate crackheads that not only really NEED your money, they also hate you just for being in their neighborhood. In a split second, you need to be able to switch that on.

All technique and style variations, while I do feel some are better for the street than others, are very much secondary to being able to do this. If you can’t turn on your killer instinct, and fear gets in, you’re dead.

There are ways to consciously train yourself to be able to do this. For example, in the some of the higher level Taoist animal styles, they teach meditation techniques that actually teach the practitioner how to drop down into their lower animal brain at will.

This is the deeper meaning to animal styles, for it goes way beyond imitating how an animal fights with various hand techniques, and other physical extentions. And it also goes much deeper than just understanding and using the different fighting strategies that various animals use. At this level, one literally learns how to step into a different part of their brain at will, and temporarily BECOME an animal in consciousness. Some of the deeper level Indonesian Silat styles teach this as well, and I suspect that some of the African styles of fighting do also.

When one is in this animal state, they can be truly deadly in combat. One is calm and relaxed, yet totally charged, and ready to inflict serious harm and injury.

However, there are some that say that practicing this is very dangerous. The person practicing this can appear as if possesed. But if one can learn to step into and out of this state at will, and completey control when to step into it, and when to step out of it, many insist that it is absolutely the best thing to know how to do to survive a truly violent encounter.

Again though, there are higher level Taoists that feel that this practice should still be avoided, as they feel that even temporarily stepping into this animal level of consciousness is detrimental to one's spiritual growth and well being.

These individuals advocate cultivating a much higher state of consciousness. They advocate one in which the practitioner, through meditation, develops such a strong connection with the heaven chi (as opposed to earth or ground chi) that they are constantly in such a relaxed state of heightened awareness that should a violent encounter suddenly occur, it won’t throw them off guard, and they’lll be able to remain in that heightened clear and balanced state, and deal with the attack from that vantage point. It’s been said that from that vantage point, the attack seems to happen in slow motion, and one’s responses to the attack flow almost effortlessly, yet with great precision and power, since one’s chi flow is also greatly increased when one is in this state.

Personally, I believe that this second thing is possible, but I feel that it’s no small trick. To be able to stay that centered and elevated in consciousness in the midst of violence certainly takes a lot of mental training. But there are those that insist that this is the best way to train oneself to deal with a real life, violent encounter.

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[QUOTE=cjurakpt;731177]personally, I am most concerned with the INITAL contact: how do you establish control as soon as possible?.[/QUOTE]
I think getting control is almsot always the hardest part.

for example, a principle based approach might suggest you try to control the knife user’s elbow / upper forearm with both hands as opposed to at the wrist, because you limit degrees of freedom more, have better control over the center of mass, and have a better chance getting your hands on that area in general, versus grabbing a wrist / hand

I’ve found that the problem with higher arm control with the hands is the freedom it leaves the opponent to switch the blade into the other hand. I have been able to solve this to a degree by getting double overhooks and controlling with those. Any cutting that can occur is pretty limited and superficial from there. After that, I can often switch to a kimura, bring the opponent down to a guard position on the ground and get a disarm or finish from there. This seems to work best from a close infighting range and seems to best be used as soon as the opponent breaches the inside range.

Getting control at the wrist, although problematic and not the highest percentage, has usually been the best option from longer to mid range, although I often miss it and have to go to the overhooks from inside.

27

I’m by no means an “expert” in knife fighting, but I’ll take a crack at this…

When I was doing jiu jitsu, some of the insights that I learned were:

  1. Try to keep as much distance as possible, remain calm, always keep your eyes on the attacker, and b4 running, try to talk your way out of and diffuse the situation as best you can.

  2. A typical street thug with minimal knife experience will most likely try to go for a kill plunging stab; but experienced knife fighters are defined to be more patient. They are more inclined to attack fingers, hands, arms, legs, etc b4 going in for the kill.

  3. Never tried this, but I was told at least that if you do encounter a knife fight you can’t get out of, using any form of clothing (with the exception of shoes, i guess :stuck_out_tongue: ) to wrap your hand and arm up will lessen your chances of getting deeply sliced, cut or worse with your lead knife hand, and of course w/o obstructing your grip. A fighting stance facing more sideways and limiting the exposed body area would be preferrable then face front and forward.

For simulation purposes during class, and to get a feel and idea of what its like, we use to pair off with partners, each holding a rubber knife in one hand, and the focus wasn’t so much to pull a kamaze type move and go in for the plunge, knowing full well you can get plunged yourself, but to try and attack small areas such as the fingers, hand, wrist, arm, etc.

I would have to say after a good 5 mins in, it got pretty exhausting, not to mention it can be frustrating because you just want to end the fight already! I learned staying focused and being patient was really important, as in this simulation at times, I had what would’ve been my pointer, middle and ring fingers on my lead knife hand slashed several times. And never mind talking about a real blade, those slashes from that rubber knife stung pretty bad! :o

Ah well, just my .02 in what I’ve learned and practiced with.

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  1. A typical street thug with minimal knife experience will most likely try to go for a kill plunging stab; but experienced knife fighters are defined to be more patient. They are more inclined to attack fingers, hands, arms, legs, etc b4 going in for the kill.

Want to bet? Most people who are called experienced knife fighters are not experienced knife fighters at all. The people that I know that have made kills or have had someone try to kill them with a blade have all said it’s fast and violent. If someone wants to kill you with a blade and they are experienced they will try to get the job done before you even know they’re doing it.

  1. Never tried this, but I was told at least that if you do encounter a knife fight you can’t get out of, using any form of clothing (with the exception of shoes, i guess ) to wrap your hand and arm up will lessen your chances of getting deeply sliced, cut or worse with your lead knife hand, and of course w/o obstructing your grip.

That could happen if you have time. You probably wont.

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[QUOTE=Knifefighter;731173]I guess, according to your “point”, the military doesn’t need to train its personnel.. only those guys who want to train..[/QUOTE]

I have some experience with this. The ARMY combatives program Level 1 is mandatory for all units. This is a basic class in which you learn to punch, kick, clinch, and some beginner BJJ. I believe the Gracies even had a hand in writing the field manual. Each drill is graded Pass or Fail. You must pass each drill to finish the course. One of the more famous ones is called “Punch Drill” where instructors put on 16oz boxing gloves and basically pummell soldiers who must successfully clinch up w/o being allowed to strike.

The class is 2 weeks, after which troops are supposed to “get together” and practice sometime, to keep up their skills.

The ARMY doesn’t spend a lot of time on H-2-H because they figure all you have to do is contain the enemy long enough for your buddy to run up and shoot him in the head.

Many of the Level I instructors are no better than a BJJ white belt with a few months of training, because, afterall, once you get through Level I you are officially a Level I instructor.

Level II has more advanced groundwork, but is optional. Level II graduates are supposed to go back to their units and train others. I believe it is also a 2 week course.

Level III and above is instructor training, and only a select few get to do it. These guys get 4 solid weeks of serious training in Kali stick fighting, boxing, MT, and BJJ from high-level ARMY and civilian instructors.

Now, the ARMY also holds an open tournament once a year. 2 rounds of BJJ rules grappling. Winners advance to 2 rounds of MMA fights. The winners from the individual bases compete at Ft. Benning in the All Base tournament, which is an MMA format. They have videos of this year’s fights posted on the SoldierGround.

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Real knife attacks are not that much different than someone trying to beat you up with his bear hands in terms of the approach taken by the knifer. Strikes (in this case stabs and slashes) usually come in much like strikes from punches and with as much force as the person can muster. They are usually done quickly and in multiple combinations.

This is one of the reasons that you know that most people who claim to have broken knife attackers arms are more than likely full of BS. Theoretical fighters think that knife attacks leave the attackers arm extended to be broken, which is not the case at all. Youve got people saying all kinds of crazy stuff that they make up because they think a knife attack is somehow mechanically different than an unarmed one. You even get people saying they can punch the knifers hand and break his hand. Some of the techniques people teach against a knife attacker would be ridiculed if they said they could be done against an empty-handed opponent.

The difference with a knife attack is that each strike is potentially much more damaging than an empty-handed one and the strikes are more likely to be focused towards the torso, rather than the face. The free hand is also more likely to be holding your clothing to control you from moving out of range.

If knife attacks were seen as more similar than different to empty-handed attacks, the defenses that many instructors teach would change significantly.

31

The street is just ****ed up… you never know what’s going to happen, when it’s going to happen or how it’s going to happen.

What you can do as a martial artists is get yourself as tough as possible. Hone your shielding skills against heavy striking and kicking. Make your own striking and kicking devestating. Keep yourself in tip-top shape so you can go lose-your-mind-ape-$hit-hard for 3 minutes and then run 8 blocks at full speed… ignoring sprains, cuts, bruises… in other words, being man enough, skilled and aware enough, to get done what needs to get done.

One tool that has been extremely useful for me is fighting with as many people, from as many styles and under as many rule sets as possible… I’ve learned from each.

Why doesn’t TKD let you capture their kick?

I believe in the old days it was assumed if they kick you they’re breaking something… so you need timing to get in and out unkicked. Today, I believe it’s because if yo capture their kick they’re **** out of luck. So capturing or attacking a kick is good. But can you? Can you capture the Thai Kick?

Why doesn’t MMA let you elbow the back of the neck or knee the head after stuffing a shoot? Because you can really hurt someone coming down on someone’s spine with the same force you use to break bricks. So that’s good to know. But at the same time, the skill needed to stuff the shoot, sprawl out, gain side control and then the back… that’s a great skill. I’d play under those rules anytime. It’s fun. Teaches sensativity.

You can’t “train for the street.” How do you train for running away from a knife attack and avoiding traffic, slippery ground all while avoiding police detection… hiding anything that could incriminate you along the way?

I just train to be sharper of body and mind, more flexable in my technique and mind… more open to see and use the things around me at the time. The other day I had my taller student in a guillotine, backed him into the corner where my “sifu” chair is, stepped up onto it so I could get the leverage to choke him out. Wasn’t conscious. I just saw the chair and found myself there standing on it with him tapping. We all laughed and learned from that.

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Rogue, could you post some footage of your training?

It sounds interesting and I’m trying to visualize it… just sounds dangerous. Because if I’m going to introduce it it’s got to be for real. I tend to break out sections of fights (engagements, clinch, ground) and train it live with stoppage.

But to allow one of my students to tangle with another so I can come and blind side him with a huge hammer blow to where his neck and collar-bone meet… or take a stick and crack it where, over the back of his head? Or a bat to his knees? Or just grab his hair and pull him down and rip his shirt over his head while we stomp on him.

I have to say, I already have to stop action one-on-one because it gets a little nuts. How do you manage keeping it real, multiple/weapon attacks and consequences and safe?

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insights gained from training vs weapons and/or multiple opponents

  1. Against multiple opponents I use footwork based more on the further oppoents than the closer one, in order to keep from being surrounded. Against one my primary goal is to close distance and get behind, against more than one my goal is to keep one in between myself and the others as much as possible.

  2. Against one I tend to like a close fight staying inside as much as possible. Against several my primary goal is not to get tied up with one, as mobility=life. Thus I tend to use more distant techniques and a lot less throws and locks.

  3. Against a weapon I find that controlling the weapon arm is really the only good choice (if you must stand and fight) As said above preventing a switch to the other hand is essential. For me the best place to be is between the attacker and the weapon. Putting myself right up against them, driving through with my shoulder and following through with all my weight to bring them down. Struggling against resistance is bad, so being able to change direction quickly is a very good thing here.

  4. Against multiple opponents with weapons the same strategy applies as if they didn’t have weapons, but with even more emphasis on dostance on not getting tied up.

  5. Facing multiple gun toting murder happy opponents either hope they have really bad aim or that you woke up in a hollywood movie. I’m not saying it’s an impossible situation, but certainly not one I would enjoy, or likely survive.

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I think a more interesting question is how many of you have been in a “street” encounter.

I’ve meet allot of MA students/instructors from both traditional and “modern” backgrounds and I’ve noticed they do alot of assuming. I’ve been in more than a couple violent situations and I can tell you they are for the most part nothing like most people in the martial arts assume.

A couple things I learned from real life are

  1. If attacked with a knife be prepared to be cut in some way. Learn where you can be cut. For instance the outside of the forearm is better than the inside. With that said I know a guy who died because he was stabbed in the leg. I was in a situation with a knife and wasn’t cut out of pure luck.

  2. Don’t try to “defend” yourself. Be more proactive. Hit hard hit first. The person that does usually wins. I used to work in a kitchen. I got into an arguement with one of the cooks. he proceeded to pick up a “hook” that’s used in the dough mixer. He started to swing it and I instictively punched him in the face. He went down instantly. Situation resolved. Which brings me to my next point

  3. The legendary okinawan “one punch one kill” may have had some truth to it but don’t count on it. Hit your attacker till he can’t fight back or til you can escape.

  4. **** legality. Survive first. I’ve been in plenty of real fights and have never been arrested (probally just lucky) but if I hesitated in my response out of worry about legal action. I probally wouldve been seriously hurt.

  5. Learn to fight in the clinch. You may not want to go to the ground and allot of fights don’t end up with both people there(some do see point 6). Yet every fight I’ve every been in has ended up at a point where you clinch. If you are experience at it, inexperienced people will be no problem. Once I scored some awesome elbows cause a guy tried to “bear hug” me. I clinched a elbowed (thanks muay thai training)

  6. In real life ground and pound is your friend. This was my usual fight ender in my teenage years.

  7. You don’t fight multiple attackers. Learn to escape multiple attackers. I was once jumped (not sure how many there were maybe 6?). I hit the guy closest to me with a branch that was on the ground. I shouldve ran cause they hesitated to come at me. Like an idiot I tried to hit another guy then they knocked me down, stomped me and took the branch and hit me with it. Multiple attacker training that consists of different people attacking you at different times is useless. I did this in my old longfist days. Nobody fights like that. better training would be to have them rush you and see if you can get away.

  8. Gun disarms are mostly fantasy or luck. I saw a fight where this guy got jumped while he was down he pulled out a gun and shot the guy on him in the stomach. The guy was practically in the mount position and couldn’t grab it fast enough. I have no clue how to deal with that. Not sure there is a way

I’m sure I have more but my hands are shaking from all the bag work I’ve been doing So enough typing.

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[QUOTE=Ray Pina;731237]Rogue, could you post some footage of your training?

It sounds interesting and I’m trying to visualize it… just sounds dangerous. Because if I’m going to introduce it it’s got to be for real. I tend to break out sections of fights (engagements, clinch, ground) and train it live with stoppage.

But to allow one of my students to tangle with another so I can come and blind side him with a huge hammer blow to where his neck and collar-bone meet… or take a stick and crack it where, over the back of his head? Or a bat to his knees? Or just grab his hair and pull him down and rip his shirt over his head while we stomp on him.

I have to say, I already have to stop action one-on-one because it gets a little nuts. How do you manage keeping it real, multiple/weapon attacks and consequences and safe?[/QUOTE]

Ray, I don’t think you can ever keep self defense totally real and it’s probably a good idea not to. We tend to train the same way you said at the beginning of your post, in sections and also continuous with stoppage.

To use your example…
“But to allow one of my students to tangle with another so I can come and blind side him with a huge hammer blow to where his neck and collar-bone meet.”

Something I learned from a friend who fights Muay Thai, realize what’s being trained and who is the focus. So if we are teaching dealing with surprise multiples the focus would be on the trainee not me practicing my hammer blow, so I might use a moderate slap to the neck or face to let him know that someone just blind sided him.

“Or just grab his hair and pull him down and rip his shirt over his head while we stomp on him.”
That’s one we’ve done and the first part can be close to full speed, you don’t want to hurt his neck, and the stomps can be lightened up.

Other times you just have to gear up.

Gotta get back to work.

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I’ll try to get back to this later, but I’m pretty busy today…

My biggest ‘lessons’ out of this stuff that I could not infer before hand is this:

To survive you are either excellent at entering and taking thier space or have fantastic stopping power and accuracy with your hits. Almost anything else results in getting fileted by even a competent knife-player.

Fighting two people is f@ck lot harder than fighting four. The larger the group, the worse they fight - probably an awareness issue, the guys fighting you are working around thier buddies. Two on one is a b!tch, as it is much easier for two to act as a team.

It is very, very challenging to manage group fights - it reinforces the value of developing skills that are quick and decisive when prepping for ‘reality.’ There is not the luxury many strategies you see in the MMA ring, although that does not mean the actual skills don’t apply.

The obvious proves out: deception is your best tool.

As far as injuries go: It covers the gamut - from busted lips, to broken fingers and toes, to cuts, abrasions, concusions and wrenches. Of course, this is still controlled, so it is only moderately worse than what I’ve seen in most ring fights.

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a couple things i have learned regarding street saftey/defense.

  1. Carry a weapon, if at all possible. if you shun firearms, or are un capable of carrying one, get a knife.

keep your weapon in a place that is easy to draw and get into a combat ready position.

above all else, familiarize yourself with your weapon you choose to be your lifeline.

ie: knife, when your at home, play with it, constantly. practice drawing from your hold location, such as a specific pocket.

if you cannot, with confidence, draw your weapon in an instant and have it ready. its pointless to even carry.

  1. Understand behavior patterns. Be able to utilize a potentially dangerous situation. Be able to spot aggressors and “leaders of the pack”. If running is not an option, being able to pick the leader of a group out and attack him first is going to be your best option, so long as the “leader” is in as vulnerable a position to be attacked as the rest of the group. Dont go out of your way to assault the leader first if you cannot do so in the safest manner possible.

  2. Above all else, retreat is the best option when facing single or multiple opponents. Often, multiple opponents, this will require actually running. Often against a single assailant (unless they have premeditated reason for attacking) you can talk your way out.

  3. Above style and technique, on the street, understanding how to utilize the environment to your advantage is a must. IE: walls, obsticles, possible retreat routes…etc.

The methodology for using the terrain in large scale warfar remains the same in personal combat. Scaled. Stay away from deaths ground, such as pinning yourself into a location so as to be cut off from an escape route, or being surrounded.

  1. If and when you become overwhelmed and have no way out. GO DOWN FIGHTING! take as many with you as you can.

against multiple attackers, if you cannot escape, or do not have superiority of weapons, chances are your going to get beaten.

as always, weapons are an essential aspect of street safety. This has always been the case in any culture in any time period, regardless.

weapons are and will always be a factor in any “street” encounter.

dont be up sh!t creek without your paddle. if you train for reality in the street, then you must understand the reality of weapon utilization.

this is just a very very small aspect of street safety i have realized in my personal studies.

as always, my opinion only.

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[QUOTE=Shaolindynasty;731251]I think a more interesting question is how many of you have been in a “street” encounter. [/uote]have, several in fact[/b]

yetallot of MA students/instructors from both traditional and “modern” backgrounds and I’ve noticed they do alot of assuming. I’ve been in more than a couple violent situations and I can tell you they are for the most part nothing like most people in the martial arts assume.
Still, there are plenty of people who train martial arts, I would guess “the majority” who have never been in any sort of conflict outside of schoolyard scuffles.

e things I learned from real life are

  1. If attacked with a knife be prepared to be cut in some way. Learn where you can be cut. For instance the outside of the forearm is better than the inside. With that said I know a guy who died because he was stabbed in the leg. I was in a situation with a knife and wasn’t cut out of pure luck.

knives are dangerous, there are many techniques that can be used if forced into the position of having to do so and yes, getting cut or stabbed is a very probable thing.

  1. Don’t try to “defend” yourself. Be more proactive. Hit hard hit first. The person that does usually wins. I used to work in a kitchen. I got into an arguement with one of the cooks. he proceeded to pick up a “hook” that’s used in the dough mixer. He started to swing it and I instictively punched him in the face. He went down instantly. Situation resolved. Which brings me to my next point

in some situations i would agree, in others, i would have to say that keeping distance and trying to negotiate a peace works as well. ie: crazy girlfriend wants to stab you, but you can overwhelm without being overly destructive even when she has a knife and even if its a big one. this has happened

  1. The legendary okinawan “one punch one kill” may have had some truth to it but don’t count on it. Hit your attacker till he can’t fight back or til you can escape.
    escape should be the first attempt, returning the attack is a last resort

  2. **** legality. Survive first. I’ve been in plenty of real fights and have never been arrested (probally just lucky) but if I hesitated in my response out of worry about legal action. I probally wouldve been seriously hurt.
    agreed, but again, escape first

  3. Learn to fight in the clinch. You may not want to go to the ground and allot of fights don’t end up with both people there(some do see point 6). Yet every fight I’ve every been in has ended up at a point where you clinch. If you are experience at it, inexperienced people will be no problem. Once I scored some awesome elbows cause a guy tried to “bear hug” me. I clinched a elbowed (thanks muay thai training) you do not want to be in a clinch when your opponent has a knife, the closest you may want to get is to hooking and fully controlling the knife arm, watch for the switch and go for the disarm if possible, if not go for overwhelming strikes to cause the disarm if possible while maintaining control of the knife arm

  4. In real life ground and pound is your friend. This was my usual fight ender in my teenage years. not always true. for me, it’s a little this, a little that and variety all the way. Sometimes a guillotine choke, other times a quick pop to the bridge of the nose, neither of these account for if the opponent has a knife in which case distance and excaope is the first and best choice everytime

  5. You don’t fight multiple attackers. Learn to escape multiple attackers. I was once jumped (not sure how many there were maybe 6?). I hit the guy closest to me with a branch that was on the ground. I shouldve ran cause they hesitated to come at me. Like an idiot I tried to hit another guy then they knocked me down, stomped me and took the branch and hit me with it. Multiple attacker training that consists of different people attacking you at different times is useless. I did this in my old longfist days. Nobody fights like that. better training would be to have them rush you and see if you can get away. it is true that you do not want to engage multiples except in the act of escaping. what you really don’t want to do is get in a corner or turn your back and again, escape!

  6. Gun disarms are mostly fantasy or luck. I saw a fight where this guy got jumped while he was down he pulled out a gun and shot the guy on him in the stomach. The guy was practically in the mount position and couldn’t grab it fast enough. I have no clue how to deal with that. Not sure there is a way
    gun disarms are pretty much a joke in reality and the stuff that bs movies are made of. they are not even worth training they are so ludicrous in assumption

[quote] I have more but my hands are shaking from all the bag work I’ve been doing So enough typing.
Your hands shouldn’t be shaking. :slight_smile:

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man sorry about the botched quoting! it’s either something wonky in my browser or in how the php is working in this site at the moment. :slight_smile:

40

I go to the mission and ask if the tuff guys would like to throw punches at me. :eek: