When someone said, “You only train for the sport. You are not train for the street.” What does he mean? How do you train the street situation? Go to a bar and pick up fights every might? How can you train for the street and not to have problem with the law?
Your thought?
I’ve never encountered anyone on the street that had just spent the last 9 weeks training for 8 hours a day with the single minded focus of putting a hurt piece on me and me alone.
One way we have trained JKD for more “street” situations is to spend time working drills from more natural positions, such as sitting, standing (especially in non-fighting postures). We do this in conjunction with “sport” sparring, and even putting on full-padding with groin strikes and head butts.
Obviously training with people on the actual streets is dangerous, at least here in the US, for legal and insurance reasons. But if you are friends training together, then it could be done, just be aware that it is a less controlled environment than a school.
[QUOTE=wenshu;1180987]I’ve never encountered anyone on the street that had just spent the last 9 weeks training for 8 hours a day with the single minded focus of putting a hurt piece on me and me alone.[/QUOTE]
its called prison
[QUOTE=bawang;1180993]its called prison[/QUOTE]
I worked for the prison system for 12 years. While some inmates are tough as nails, most fights I’ve watched the vids of were pretty pansy a$$.
What most inmates have is heart, and toughness. Many are not afraid to get shot or killed, but most don’t have much skill.
[QUOTE=Scott R. Brown;1180995]
What most inmates have is heart, and toughness. [/QUOTE]
this is my point
*clenches anus tightly
Training for the street in unarmed combat is no different than training for the street with firearms. Students are put in every possible scenario one can think of and then made to respond with force.
Fa Xing hit it right on the head.
My students train to respond from sitting, standing in a corner, small bathroom stall type areas, handcuffed, etc..
What it means is when we train for a sport we spend all our time training offensive moves. And when you train defence, you train to defend just enough to still have a chance to counter attack quickly.
Those of you who have been attacked violently will be aware it is not always easy OR necessarily a good idea to immediately turn around a smack a guy you have never met before in the face.
Solid and conservative defence is so important. It gives you a chance to get your head around what is going on, buys you a second so you can make a decision. Being indecisive is a real big problem.
I have seen many fights where the person attacked doesn’t even hit back. They don’t realise till 10 minutes after that they should have. I tried to talk about this on another thread. This even happens to people who know how to fight.
If someone hits you and you start attacking them like you do in a ring fight, the law will not always be on your side. ‘But I would rather be judged by 9 then carried by 6’ is a stupid counter to this since the vast majority of fights are not life or death.
When you realise you don’t actually want the ramifications of punching someone in the face, you freeze. And if your defence is based on counter attack but you can’t counter, then your screwed.
Many people know this already but consider sport fighting more realistic because ’ Attack is the best form of defence’ Unfortunately most people who quote this advice have never been attacked and do not realise that this advice is conditional. It only applies if in order to win you must destroy the opponent. This is true in the ring, but it is NOT true in the real world. As the defender you do NOT have to destroy the opponent to win, you only have to survive as unscathed as possible. When you look at things like this it can be easier to make your combat decision. You think deciding not to destroy the opponent is weak? Trust me, when the blows are raining down it is something you will settle for gladly.
How to train? Put on a plastic face shield, make your opponent put on wraps (no gloves, too big, changes the guard) then make him hit you in the face as hard and as fast and in as quick combination as he can. Then you parry, dodge, shrink and dance. Off course in real life we may want to counter attack, but we don’t want to compromise defence for it. If you can learn deflect a guy completely it will give you the time you need to make your decision, become committed to a course of action and do it.
[QUOTE=YouKnowWho;1180986]When someone said, “You only train for the sport. You are not train for the street.” What does he mean? How do you train the street situation? Go to a bar and pick up fights every might? How can you train for the street and not to have problem with the law?
Your thought?[/QUOTE]
It is a saying that over time has become defunct. In relation to sport it would probably be in context to dirty moves such as crotch kicking, choking, hair pulling, clothing pulling, use of weapons, use of objects around you such as walls, windows, floors etc, ramming a dudes head into a wall for instance.
Having said that, in reality you train to find the advantage point through strength, power and dominance and most importantly you would have to be willing to do those things and perhaps pay the consequences as you point out.
Training should be difficult but useful. If it’s neither of those, I’d stop training that. Fighting is fighting. Fighting dirty isn’t trained for, you just have to be wiling to fight dirty.
[QUOTE=bawang;1180996]*clenches anus tightly[/QUOTE]
But that’s what they want.
street is
even the odds
run and dodge
use tools
:eek:
[QUOTE=bawang;1180996]this is my point
*clenches anus tightly[/QUOTE]
Just like I remember…that’s why I always had top bunk.
[QUOTE=RenDaHai;1180999]What it means is when we train for a sport we spend all our time training offensive moves.[/QUOTE]
That doesn’t make any sense whatsoever.
[QUOTE=YouKnowWho;1180986] How can you train for the street and not to have problem with the law?
[/QUOTE]
Join the law. 
or if you are in China join a powerful gang that can take care of the law for you.
when people say they train for the streets vs training for sports is on the streets you aren’t worried about illegal techniques or sportsmanlike conduct. In the streets one would have to finish the fight very early compared to the relaxed time limits there are in sports.
The difference between a good street fight and a sports match is training. for sports fighting, you train under a coach. Street fighting, you get experience by fighting. the more the better.
the street fighter fights out of necessity for survival. he doesn’t have a desire to become a star. in many cases, the street fighter is skilled in basic san da type techniques from body slams down to ground and pound. the only practice they get is getting into fights. and typically, as long as a street fighter feels he has an edge over untrained violent offenders, thats good enough for them. they have the confidence needed to survive. they know what its like to have that adrenaline rush and how to deal with it.
now sports fighters are on a higher level because they are sacrificing their life and time to training to beat other trained fighters. their conditioning is superior. but isn’t that already understood in advance? does it really take a genius to comprehend that? 
now, the fact that a highly trained sports fighter will most definitely whip an experienced street fighter with or without martial art background, this DOESN’T change the fact in any way that an experienced street fighter with a martial art background can effectively defend themselves against a violent attack by untrained assailants on the streets. the original purpose for martial arts was self preservation.
how does a street fighter prepare to fight in the streets? first, what kind of fight in the streets are you expecting? see. where i come from, fights are spontaneous. for example, you can be with your wife or child and some dude mistakes you for a gang member, or someone who jumped their homeboy, or someone just intending to cause you harm. you don’t need to be a sports fighter to handle a fool or fools like this.
back to what i was saying. street fighters train by hanging a punching bag in their garage and practice their striking (similar to boxing). a SF practices kicks and punches till they get better. they spar or play fight with their friends, even going to the ground. not training, but playful skirmishes. this is some of the ways the hone their skills.
do streetfighters care about the law? i would honestly say NO. when it comes to your life, the law is the LAST thing on your mind. " Hey man, we shouldn’t fight because we can both go to jail" doesn’t exist on the street. when someone swings at you, ITS ON. i have never thought about the law even when the law arrived. FUK HIM UP or he will FUK you up. plain and simple. the consequence of being arrested is a distant afterthought.
suburbs are way less violent…**** peaceful from a city boy perspective. streetfighters know there are other street folk with skills out there so they are more prepared because an encounter can happen at any give time. the unprepared are typically on the losing end.
on a competition level, sports fighting is better. realistic martial art training is sufficient for practical situations. regardless, both fight. unlike some people who claim to know how to fight.
what the heck do i know? i don’t know.
[QUOTE=wenshu;1180987]I’ve never encountered anyone on the street that had just spent the last 9 weeks training for 8 hours a day with the single minded focus of putting a hurt piece on me and me alone.[/QUOTE]
And done.
Nothing more needs to be said really.
BUT, I will add just this part:
When you train for the potential street encounter, your training must include weapons, in particular knives, sticks, chains and guns.
to me sport training and street training are different in many and obvious various ways. The most obvious is sport traning has a more gentlmens approach. You may be in a clinch waiting to see what your oppoent does without harming them, or wait for him to make a mistake and reverse. You may lay on the ground waitng and breathing but liying still wating for his to make his next move, you may be patient and realize this fight is not for life and death, there a referee and you can relax and catch your breath etc etc.
In street training I am looking to end the fight ASAP. I look for dirty thinks shoving my thumb in their eye, biting, ripping off someones ear, squeezing thier testicals, using debris found on the street. no relaxing just counter attack and run, or counter disable then run. break a bone or rip or tear a ligament then run etc etc. it is defiantly 2 different mind sets.
[QUOTE=wenshu;1181018]That doesn’t make any sense whatsoever.[/QUOTE]
Was answering question in post number one. In a ring the only way to win is to destroy the opponent, thus we train with attacking in mind. This is not true of the ‘street’ as their are many different ways to conclude an encounter. Thus when our focus is on attack we are likely to be training for sport. Or for mugging someone. Clearer?
I’m curious if anyone teaches their students or learns from their instructors how to avoid the conflict all together through micro-momentary expressions/body language or self-defense psychology?
If so what are a few examples you have learned in your training?
From John’s other thread:
Guns are always a factor, same for knives and sticks.
My MA training takes into account:
Edge weapons
Impact weapons
Firearms.
I try to make it so that what I do VS an impact weapons like a stick, is the same as vs H2H ( the carryover is there).
Firearms changes a lot for obvious reasons.
I view the potential attack of any opponent as armed and since a blade is more dangerous than a stick and a stick more than a fist, I try to revolve my training around dealing with an edge weapon.