When someone said that “I train for self-defense”. What does that mean?
You can always say to “kill someone” is to “help someone to go to heaven”. It doesn’t matter what kind of nice words that you may use, when your “fist meets your opponent’s face”, your opponent is down and you are standing. Any nice words won’t change the outcome.
I truly don’t know “training for self-defense” can be any difference from regular MA training. Will you punch in different way or kick in different way? I don’t think so. If you want your technique to work, you still have to go through develop, test, enhance, and polish stages.
[QUOTE=YouKnowWho;1257273]When someone said that “I train for self-defense”. What does that mean?
You can always say to “kill someone” is to “help someone to go to heaven”. It doesn’t matter what kind of nice words that you may use, when your “fist meets your opponent’s face”, your opponent is down and you are standing. Any nice words won’t change the outcome.
I truly don’t know “training for self-defense” can be any difference from regular MA training. Will you punch in different way or kick in different way? I don’t think so. If you want your technique to work, you still have to go through develop, test, enhance, and polish stages.
What’s your opinion on this?[/QUOTE]
Self defense only requires that you survive.
Of course one way to survive is to completely obliterate the other person.
But that extreme is not necessary for just survival.
Running away is self defense.
Sometimes those that don’t like training aggressive intent will say they train just self defense.
But better to train for maximum overkill. Then you can choose how much of it to apply.
[QUOTE=YouKnowWho;1257273]I truly don’t know “training for self-defense” can be any difference from regular MA training. Will you punch in different way or kick in different way?[/QUOTE]
I think those that say they train for self defense do differently from MA training to take out the other guy.
You can turtle and wait for a chance to run, or you can go in like you are Buakaw
‘Self-defense’ is a catchphrase used as a reason for training martial arts in the West since at least the 1800s. As in boxing being referred to as ‘the manly art of self-defense’. The term ‘art of self-defense’ was applied to Asian MA (Judo/Jujutsu) when they became known in the West.
Of course, true MA were originally for dispatching other people by all means necessary. However, from a legal standpoint, you may be better off saying that you train for self-defense, if use of your skills ever results in a court case. Imagine testifying that you train to kill people or send them to heaven.
Defending against an aggressor can be a great advantage as the brain will set off alarms for an adrenalin surge that an offensive minded enemy, especially in a wrongful situation may not be able to deploy. This has often been a great equalizer against odds.
[QUOTE=PalmStriker;1257281]Defending against an aggressor can be a great advantage as the brain will set off alarms for an adrenalin surge that an offensive minded enemy, especially in a wrongful situation may not be able to deploy. This has often been a great equalizer against odds.[/QUOTE]
Aggressor also has adrenalin surge. That is why “knockout game” turns into gang beating…
For those that incorporate sparring and scenario based drills, Training for “self-defense” includes NON-physical skills like visual awareness, de-escalation strategies, use of improvised weapons, etc.
I know of MMA gyms that teach these other skillsets and also say they teach “self-defense”.
I knew a girl who I would NOT have put money on to protect herself. She was on the shorter side and overweight. She was in college and went to one of the buildings to work on a project after hours. She was leaving when she was accosted by a man who was about a foot taller than her. He tried to drag her into one of the rooms and she fought back. He tried striking her (giving her a big black eye in the process). While they were fighting she was able to strike him in the groin and bought enough time for her to run away.
Was she successful at “self-defense”? Yes
Would she EVER have been successful at ANY type of combat sport? No
[QUOTE=Lucas;1257285]When someone says they are training for self defense, usually they mean that they are learning to fight, but that they dont fight.[/QUOTE]
Sometimes we say that they are learning about MA, as opposed to learning MA. And that they can’t actually use it.
There are lots of people in this category. And it’s fine if that’s what they want.
[QUOTE=Kevin73;1257287]I knew a girl who I would NOT have put money on to protect herself. She was on the shorter side and overweight. She was in college and went to one of the buildings to work on a project after hours. She was leaving when she was accosted by a man who was about a foot taller than her. He tried to drag her into one of the rooms and she fought back. He tried striking her (giving her a big black eye in the process). While they were fighting she was able to strike him in the groin and bought enough time for her to run away.
Was she successful at “self-defense”? Yes
Would she EVER have been successful at ANY type of combat sport? No[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Kevin73;1257287]Some of those comments are true.
For those that incorporate sparring and scenario based drills, Training for “self-defense” includes NON-physical skills like visual awareness, de-escalation strategies, use of improvised weapons, etc.
[/QUOTE]
As N said, “running away” is true self defense. This is not the intent of traditional Gong Fu. Realistically, most, (not all,) street altercations could be successfully avoided by running away; or eliminated all together by common sense.
It seems if this is the goal, training track would be a better use of your time than training Gong Fu.
Some people have a hard time accepting that Gong Fu does not, “learn to fight so we don’t have too,” is not, “peaceful art for self defense.”
Gong Fu, in the sense of Quan, is conditioning, strengthening, desensitizing method to toughen soldiers physically and mentally, to aid their ability to kill.
The mindset of traditional Gong Fu is not compatible with self preservation tactics. The two should be kept separate to not cause confusion.
I’m inclined to agree with Laroux and Lucas here. If you actually want to be able to “win” a street fight…your best bet is to train to fight, (the way a sport fighter would) and add concepts of dirty fighting.
If your method of training is to focus on conceptual dirty fighting, but not undergo fight training, I think your chances of success are significantly lower.
It’s best if we can admit that “self defense” is western marketing gimmick. You can’t sell TMA to suburban kids by telling their soccer moms you want to brainwash them to create a hardened fighter.
[QUOTE=Kellen Bassette;1257296]It’s best if we can admit that “self defense” is western marketing gimmick. You can’t sell TMA to suburban kids by telling their soccer moms you want to brainwash them to create a hardened fighter.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Kellen Bassette;1257296]If you actually want to be able to “win” a street fight…your best bet is to train to fight, (the way a sport fighter would) and add concepts of dirty fighting.
If your method of training is to focus on conceptual dirty fighting, but not undergo fight training, I think your chances of success are significantly lower.
It’s best if we can admit that “self defense” is western marketing gimmick. You can’t sell TMA to suburban kids by telling their soccer moms you want to brainwash them to create a hardened fighter.[/QUOTE]
This is very true. The idea that you can learn to apply specific ‘tricks’ to survive dangerous situations is a very dangerous one.
In all probability, referring to MA as ‘self-defense’ was far more tasteful to upper-class Victorian-era sensibilities than ‘hard, bruising, sweat-wringing training’. For the most part, these were the ones who were first exposed to Asian MA in the West.
OTOH, Kevin73 raises a good point as well. There are a lot of factors, and I’ve also known some people who could never have functioned effectively in a competitive sports environment who successfully ‘defended’ themselves. And I know of some competitive fighters who have been successful on the street, and some who were not.
‘Self-defense’ is awareness, to avoid and/or escape a situation. Nothing wrong or shameful in that. This should be a part of a MA education. Because too many people are simply unaware. Especially these days, when any 10 year-old can pull a trigger.
But the MAs themselves were intended to harden you for combat. In terms of actual life or death scenarios, they are the last resort when all else has failed.
I train strictly for self-defense. I want to defend myself hahaha
No but seriously, I get in the ring with people and try to use controlled techniques when they are “dirty” and I use “ring” techniques with as much power as fits the situation.
My best friend and I were at college and we asked some local TKD guys to spar. When asked we were told they couldn’t do it because they might kill us. We honestly thought they were joking…they weren’t.
We train to spar and fight and we also train the dirty stuff that we use when doing different “door man” jobs.
