Top Three You Have Witnessed

Hello,

Over the years we have met and watched numerous WC people. Who would you list as the top three to date you have met or watched via demo or video?

No specific order for mine:

Mui Wai Hun-Incredibly simple in his application and art. Highly effective teaching.

Sum Nung-A true master of WC. Second to none!

Ken Chung-First time I met him I did not grasp what he was teaching but looking back I appreciate his WC expression much more now.

There are many more that impressed me but right now these three stick out the most.

Anyone else?

Regards,

Larry, Curly and Moe?

Interesting thread…

This should be really interesting…

Me, I would say there are four people I have touched hands with that seemed so far ahead of everyone else–which is not to say there aren’t more, because there are so many more incredible practitioners out there. But since only three are allowed, here they are:

Duncan Leung: incredible at application, but often ragged on because he doesn’t put much emphasis on chi sao. However, I got a chance to roll with him, and I feel he is top notch. Every opening I started from poon sao was burried half-way into the motion.

Ken Chung: While Sifu Leung burries you half-way into a motion, Sifu Ken doesn’t even let you start that motion. He feels it and neutralizes, probably before you even realized you were trying something yourself. Not to mention his effortlessly-generated power.

Wang Zi Jian: A Si-hing in Taipei, whose listening skills were boosted by a brief foray into Chen Taiji. In chi sao, you may start throwing some techniques off of poon sao rolling, but afterwards, it is all his game. He always has the initiative, and you will never get a chance to counterattack. Also incredible power-- I have seen him leave handprints on people (a la “Gold Steel Palms” from Iron Monkey), luckily, not myself.

These three guys are so dominating, yet so different, it always reaffirms to me that Wing Chun can be done effectively in so many different ways (i.e., there is no “one” truth).

Kenneth Chung of San Francisco
Daniel Lui Chi Dak of Hong Kong
Chu Shong Tin of Hong Kong

Originally posted by planetwc
Kenneth Chung of San Francisco
Daniel Lui Chi Dak of Hong Kong

I must wholeheartedly agree with these. Though I have met others who are impressive at what they do, and some being delightful people in addition to their technical prowess, these so far remain in a league of their own in my estimation.

Chu Shong Tin of Hong Kong

I am holding my 3rd vote open yet in hopes of meeting him, Lok Yiu, or someone else who might happily surprise me.

Regards,

  • Kathy Jo

While interesting, I think most people will inevitably post some form of (my sifu), (my sigung), (my sibaksuk), etc. and thus render the topic not as useful as it might be.

What might be more useful, and generate less canned responses, is to constrain it to people outside of the responder’s own lineage. Since its rare enough for WCK people to think anyone other than their own kind are doing anything even remotely passing good, it would be refreshing and especially insightful, IMHO, to hear those kinds of responses.

I would also leave off the ‘on tape’ part, since people like Yip Man, Tsui Sheung-Tin, Wong Shun-Leung, etc. have all been on tape and would thus make reducing the set to 3 very difficult 8P

(Note: I also think Ken Chung is very impressive in person, but regretfully I’ve not been able to meet Miu sifu, or any of the Fung family, though I have little doubt some would also be very impressive).

Originally posted by reneritchie
While interesting, I think most people will inevitably post some form of (my sifu), (my sigung), (my sibaksuk), etc. and thus render the topic not as useful as it might be.

Yes, the question as stated begs, objectively and obviously, for a subjective answer, LOL.

On the one hand, it is consistent with human nature to reflect our personal biases in answer to such a question. [And I’ve yet to meet anyone on earth who doesn’t have biases, though on occasion I’ve met some who may be in denial about it, LOL.] And after all, what good is it to have biases if you can’t reflect them. ;):smiley:

On the other hand we’d be right silly ducks not to learn with, or learn in some close proximity to, those on our short list, and who may have arrived on that short list by a more objective means.

On both of those accounts then, I’d be somewhat surprised if someone didn’t include their own somewhere in the list. Both reasons will lead to the same kind of responses, despite probable differences in levels of objectivity and a sort of chicken and egg problem.

So, in the proper light I think Jim’s question is actually a good one for revealing both a) preferences and predilections, combined with b) some semblance of a relative, albeit personal quality assessment in light of those predilections. It doesn’t bother me to measure something, even something subjective, so long as I have a good bead on what the data and metrics mean and don’t mean when I interpret them. Of course this also requires recognizing and managing underlying assumptions, the knack for which can vary wildly and on any given day. Even for someone as diligent as I try to be, LOL.


What might be more useful, and generate less canned responses, is to constrain it to people outside of the responder’s own lineage. Since its rare enough for WCK people to think anyone other than their own kind are doing anything even remotely passing good, it would be refreshing and especially insightful, IMHO, to hear those kinds of responses.

Your question is a good one too, though perhaps more challenging to answer (on a subjective or objective basis). I’m still thinking about whether the responses would necessarily indicate less personal bias, or just a different kind of personal bias or error, and whether or not they would be more meaningful.

Pensive Regards,

  • Kathy Jo

Tsui Sheung-Tin - Because IMHO his WC theories are among the most advanced (yet simple)

Susana Ho - Because of technician knowledge/ability and can pass it on so well.

It’s hard to pick a third, ive interest in ken Chung’s ideas, of what little ive been exposed to (Kj your a good ambassador!)

I like the WSL guys ideas too. And the yip man video!!

I find that while we might be doing things somewhat different and it might sound weird, but the ideas that people have can be applied or considered inside the context of what we learn in our linage or school, or on our own. Even though we might not agree with what we would see, the concepts are the gold.

Rene says:
Since its rare enough for WCK people to think anyone other than their own kind are doing anything even remotely passing good, ..

It is for that reason that I gave a facetious response. Even though Jim’s intentions are good- there is likely to be a lot of sifu-sigung listings. Sorry Jim- I dont see the point of the poll.
joy

PS Consider Larry, Curly and Moe…

  1. They definitely know biu jee
  2. they always know where the dummy is
  3. they can uproot people
  4. they stay with what comes and try to attack when it leaves
  5. they know pak sao and wu sao
  6. they know moe duk-- actually moe probably reinvented it.
  7. they dont telegraph their moves
  8. when they hafta- they go to the ground!

I’ll do yours yuanfen:

Ho Ka Min
Augustine Fung
S.Teebas :wink: :stuck_out_tongue: :stuck_out_tongue: :smiley:

Teebas- how did you know?
Remarkable intuition!

Originally posted by yuanfen
Teebas- how did you know?
Remarkable intuition!

:smiley:

Other lineages

There are others I would like to see on video given their location relative to mine(or their having passed away) :

Yip Man
(the reputed earlier footage that Leung Ting has, I have the footage of him days before his death)

Lok Yiu

Sum Nung

Ho Kam Ming

Wong Shun Leung
(seminar footage other than the Science of In-Fighting video which I already have)

Hi Joy,

The reason for the poll was simply to see who some people would regard as the top they have met. No hidden agenda. I also wanted to see how many people would be honest enough to answer! There are a lot of people with a lot of experience on this forum and perhaps we can all use the top three’s as a good place to use others views to check out some different people.

The reason I chose who I did was simple but I do see your point as to this being a good place to start BS!

For me! All three make use of very subtle Kung Fu. All three have great posture and root. All three look very relaxed but alive. Etc.. Etc..

I have respect for a lot of other WC folk but right now these guys hold the top spots for me. Also, if you notice I did not make lineage a deciding factor as each one was from a different lineage. One from Koo Lo. One from YKS and one from YM.

Ok! Gotta run!

See ya,

Jim,

I grant that I don’t get out much, so my opinions as based on actual experience of various teachers is limited.

I haven’t found that the most known proponents of Wing Chun to be open to touching hands with me outside of my own lineage. This being the case, I doubt others’ Wing Chun skill until they are more open to assessment. The very fact that they are confident, or not, in their hands tells me much of what I want to know about them.

Regards,

My Objective Opinion (Cough, cough)

In my best objective opinion, the three top hands I have met are

Ken Chung :smiley:

Ben Der :smiley:

Sandy Wong :smiley:

Steve Wong :smiley:

Vince Kong Lee :smiley:

All are bio-ed on Bay Area Wing Chun Association :D:D:D

At the risk of ostracism…

I have met few that were in a position to leave a lasting impression. Most people I have meet are good practiioners, and many I really do respect for their skills.

I only have had one person that ever made me say wow. That is my current “teacher” I put that in quotes because I am not a regular student but more of a visitor. I have yet to feel any one that can do what he does…but to be fair I have not met many people in his class. That would be Kenneth Chung. As KJ pointed out, it would be silly to recognize this and then not to train with the person. So of course I am biased. LOL. But Rene would object to it being in my lineage. LOL.

My next would be Eddie Chong. But again, he is in my lineage from before Ken. Many people may balk at this, but that is from my experience. And before you balk, have you experienced any thing from him. LOL

So who is left? On video I would list

  1. Yip Man (By default, how could you not)
  2. Wong Sheung Leung (See above)
    3)?- No one else was impressive

I would have put Sum Nung, Wang Kiu, Lok Yiu, or Tsui Shun Tin inthere, but no one has shared a video with me. Hint Hint. LOL

The people I am most interested in would be, in no particular order.

  1. Sum Nung
  2. Tsu Shung Tin
  3. Lok Yiu

Tom


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For Jim Roselando

Well Jim,

I’ve also seen more folks on video, especially courtesy of the old Wing Chun compilation tape Steve Leung used to send out before he retired.

There are other folks like Ip Chun and Leung Ting, who I have met but not felt their hands (while I have seen them on video). I’ve met and rolled with Hawkins Cheung and his students, a Hung Fa Yi guy, William Cheung guys, Augustine Fong students, etc.

I have the full Pan Nam VCD set, hard for me to judge him given the advanced age at which he made those tapes. My si-gung Ken Chung did touch his hands and said they were ok.

And there is some odd looking Koo Lo village footage on the web.

I’d like to see WT seminar footage rather than the marketing stuff as I think their demo stuff is generally bad posture/structure for the sake of overemphasing how they would do a “beat down” on someone. That’s fine for attracting newbies to WC, but I’d like to see beyond the sizzle to the real deal of what they have.

So, I’m not sure if you are trying to gauge how much Wing Chun people have seen outside their own school either hands on or via video tape or just who of that set people were impressed by.

Many of the other sifus seem uninterested in letting you try their hands directly, which is were you truly get a sense of what they may have.

Suffice it to say I have a large collection of Wing Chun videos, not as large as say Steve Leung used to have, but still, enough to see what else is out there.

Best hands

My three… 1)Ho Kam Ming
2)Augustine Fong
3) Danny Chan
www.sillumwingchun.com

Good choices Rob-
Danny (Chan) is awesome-hands, legs, footwork, timing, precision, positioning, power, control-you name it. A wing chun person through and through. Most folks havent felt or seen him-
making the polling somewhat problematic- because most folks have limited data on many people in wing chun who are not in mags etc.

He can transfer those skills to many other activities. When he spikes a volleyball- best to just simply get out of the way.