It’s far from an overnight thing. you still here about grappling ALL the time. heck, just look around this forum. When you watch mma, what are they doing? striking and GRAPPLING. with association comes assimilation. It hasn’t gone anywhere, it’s just been assimilated into today’s MMA. We step forward, not backward, consequently, ground grappling will always be a part of fight training, regardless of whether it’s UFC or some other venue.
the concept of cross-training has been around for a long time, but, MMA in relativity to tradtitional chinese martial arts IS an overnight thing. what i mean is that MMA training like it is today was not all that long ago. and no, we don’t really hear about gracie jiu jitsu like we used to either. at least not in the bay area.
Traditional Chinese martial arts have been around for centuries and MMA like we know it today hasn’t. plain and simple. thats what i mean an overnight thing.
i guess what i would prefer to do is assimilate MMA concepts into TCMA and Keep my TCMA while advancing it further in its development.
but thats my take on it.
peace
Word.
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word?
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assimilating mma into tcma?
why? I mean, besides what you don’t have, which is essentially the training methodology geard towards sport fighting and perhaps ground fighting drills and maybe even standard boxing stuff, i would think that pretty much anything is there already.
It’s not teh bulk of the content, it’s that content which is taken piece by piece and drilled to death and trainined like a mofoi to get to a point where you can step in a ring and go for 5 minutes x3 and still walk out provided you weren’t knocked out.
Besides all that, sport venue fighting is fun for young guys, useless for old guys and anyone who isn’t considering a career in it isn’t going to go anywhere beyon where they are already at with it.
I don’t know about some of you guys, but it is very dfficult to find competent fighters to train with on a regular basis.
Even decent mma gyms are hard to find. There’s one good gym for every 50 so so gyms. There’s better boxing gyms where I am and very few ufc class jj gyms or anything like that.
I like the training methodology of live fight training. But it is a sportive approach and there’s a fair share of so called mma-ers out there copping stuff from trad arts and then calling it like they made it up or its an evolution or something. Good examples like the “shredder” dude. Who basically looks at tiger style, rips off the concept and then sells videos of his revolutionary concept.
Idiots like that are a dime a bakers dozen in the mma world.
Not that trad arts don’t have their share of blowhhards, idiots and out and out frauds, just want to point out that it’s not much different in the mma world either.
think about it, of the thousands of us that practice some martial arts regularly, there’s only a few hundred or so on the professional circuit. is that because so many thousands can’t do it? Or simply that ther are many who don’t want to fight competitively?
In short, its all good. There’s good and bad in all of it.
TCMA has always been MMA
Isn’t assimilating new techniques and ideas into a style to expand it or improve it the way it has awlays been in TCMA? If it wasn’t, there wouldn’t be so many different styles.
Look at Praying Mantis or Choy Lay Fut. Both of these systems are made up of elements from other styles.
Adding an MMA element, like ground fighting, to an existing style is actually keeping with the tradition of TCMA.
100% Agreement from me hsk.
Thesis + Antithesis = Synthesis
I also concur with Cheif Fox though. It’s just that you guys really are not saying different things to my mind. True TCMA includes a tradition of dialectical progression. Currently the antithesis of TCMA is called MMA. Previously it may have been something else. In the future it will also be something different.
What makes something Traditional is that it is the end result of thousands of previous syntheses {sp} one more won’t negate all those previous evolutions. It will just continue the process.
see, i am very very confident in my stand up skills both offensively and defensively.
but choy lee fut does not work ground fighting.
what i mean assimilate mma into TCMA is mostly the grappling aspect. i know i know we have chin na and such, but specificly to choy lee fut this is one aspect in which we lack.
As i’ve said many times before, i prefer street combat, and i know how to strike. i don’t want to learn grappling but i want to learn how to counter grappling. with this i may learn some grappling myself and then turn around and teach its concepts to my students from a gung fu point of view.
most people are talking about ring fighting, i don’t ring fight, i street fight if i have to. I practice martial arts the old fashioned way, for self preservation.
hsk
Horses have been around for centuries, cars haven’t.
Chief, when you said praying mantis you must mean northern style, I think southern style is unique aka Kwong Sai Jook Lum.
Anyway, I wanted to chime in and say after watching a lot of K-1 on ESPN, I think it is LAME ! A lot of leg kicks but so weak they are like feints and obviously just meant to annoy by repitition. None of these guys ever do anything, just cover with thier gloves like boxers on qualudes. The ones I saw had to go extra rounds for a decision cause nobody made any points. WTF ?
Well, hop in there and beat them, big mouth! Make yourself a nice chunk of change.
you would think so, but this being the case, why wasn’t ground fighting widely adopted long ago? IME, most people thought they couldn’t be taken down… Since the bjj outbreak in the early 90’s, traditional styles have still resisted adding groundwork to their training.
I’m not sure what that is supposed to mean… I have bar fights pretty much every night - and all I ever really use is bjj and judo…
very good, that’s your choice.
now what?
I think that means he practices his “too deadly for the ring” techniques in the confines of his training area against others who are doing the same without actually working against resisting opponents and likes to imagine that he is training in a deadly street-fighting system, although he doesn’t actaully do this either.
I’m not a historian but the way I understand Praying Mantis aka Tang Lang Chuan, is Hand work of a mantis, foot work of a monkey. Then the most effective parts of 18 different styles were put together to complete the system. It then moved to different parts of China and evolved into the different praying mantis styles. To be honest, I don’t really care. The only relevance is the assimilation of different techniques into the evolution of a style.
As far as K-1 goes. I’ve seen some pretty good fights on there. The leg kicks are very effective. I’ve seen guys get chopped down round after round until they can barely stand and can’t continue. Remember K-1 is tournament style. Even if you win a fight it’s possible that you may not be able to go on because of injury. I’ve also seen some pretty good knock outs by high kicks in K-1. However, many of the fighters are really just brawlers with no skill. This is were the lameness comes in.
Why I could beat up Johnny Knoxville
Sorry, completely random thought, I watched the ******* movie about a year ago. During two sequences members of the ******* crew “fought” people. One was Butterbee if I remember correctly. The other was a womens K-1 champ. I was watching it with a few buddies of mine. Only one other martial artist in the group and he was too tanked to stand much less engage in discourse about such a ludicrous fight. I remember she cut down one guy with pretty much nothing but low kicks. Now I LOVE low roundhouses. I also could tell that this lady wasn’t even trying. 
Like I said. Completely random thought.
What I’m getting at is it’s all the same. you train for “street fighting”, yet I use my “ring fighting” in real fights. People kill me with the “sport” and “too deadly” delinneations. Good fighting based on sound principles will always be such. period.
Ever been in a rush and simply can’t find something that you knew exactly where it was? When you stopped and slowed down, you found it didn’t you?
Ever been under stress and had trouble doing a simple mechanical function like sticking a key in a lock?
In the street, if you are attacked, the first second goes
[SIZE=“7”]BOOOOOOOOMMMMMMMMMMM[/SIZE]
The very first thing I do in a self defense seminar is walk up to a random person and without warning scream in their face… they always jump…
Whether you want to call it stress, adrenaline, whatever… it is all the same… the crucial factor in a fight is coming to your senses and overcoming this response
There are no “MMA techniques”… just like there are no “deadly techniques”…
There are simply those who can use technique for real, and those who can not
Personally, I will take a kid raised in a bad neighborhood who has had many street altercations over a kid taking Kali classes in a knife fight.
I’d also more likey pick the competitive Judoka over the “deadly” class room martial artist
It is a matter of who is more used to working in conditions of “stress”
The fact people haven’t gotten past this by now is sort of sad :eek:
So, I’ll watch some more K-1… maybe I just watched on a bad day.