This looks terrible

[QUOTE=Andy Miles;1054433]the water bottles used at the water cooler drinking machine. The new ones come with handles. You can also fill a milk jug with cement.[/QUOTE]

I had tried that before. If you miss one catch, and it falls down on the ground. it will be cracked.

[QUOTE=EarthDragon;1054422] for holding shoes [/QUOTE]
Those shoes is the weight training.

[QUOTE=MasterKiller;1054365]I picking people up and throwing them.[/QUOTE]
MasterKiller throws people around. That’s also weight training.

YKW

Taiji guys use long pole to train their “body unification” and that’s weight training to me.

yes sorry should have been more specific and said body building.
I actually got into body sculpting, crazy strict diet, no steriods use, aminos only, lifting daily, lighter weight 12-14reps 1 body part a per day, 4-5 excersizes per muscle, which cuts the heck out of you instead of bulk. starting to see individual lines in my shoulders quates an forearms

About ‘tendon’ strength…

This is the way I understand it.

Tendon strength is as mentioned, about strengthening the tendons, this gives you more and safer hyperextension, and if you train that method, loose speed too.

Power is mass by speed… Hyperextension gets you penetration.

Its still the muscle that triggers and drives the movement, but the ‘chain’ of power delivery, muscle, tendon and bone have a stronger weak link.

When the old folk chopped up a Tiger, they were amazed that there was so little muscle, and so much tendon for such a fierce powerful creature. Thus, this talk about “tendon power” and the “Tiger” styles.

Its still basic physiology, but at the same time, a unique take on training, and not a common one.

Tendons have been traditionally considered to simply be a mechanism by which muscles connect to bone, functioning simply to transmit forces. However, over the past two decades, much research focused on the elastic properties of tendons and their ability to function as springs. This allows tendons to passively modulate forces during locomotion, providing additional stability with no active work. It also allows tendons to store and recover energy at high efficiency. For example, during a human stride, the Achilles tendon stretches as the ankle joint dorsiflexes. During the last portion of the stride, as the foot plantar-flexes (pointing the toes down), the stored elastic energy is released. Furthermore, because the tendon stretches, the muscle is able to function with less or even no change in length, allowing the muscle to generate greater force.

The mechanical properties of the tendon are dependent on the collagen fiber diameter and orientation. The collagen fibrils are parallel to each other and closely packed, but show a wave-like appearance due to planar undulations, or crimps, on a scale of several micrometers.[13] In tendons, the collagen I fibres have some flexibility due to the absence of hydroxyproline and proline residues at specific locations in the amino acid sequence, which allows the formation of other conformations such as bends or internal loops in the triple helix and results in the development of crimps.[14] The crimps in the collagen fibrils allow the tendons to have some flexibility as well as a low compressive stiffness. In addition, because the tendon is a multi-stranded structure made up of many partially independent fibrils and fascicles, it does not behave as a single rod, and this property also contributes to its flexibility.[15]

The proteoglycan components of tendons also are important to the mechanical properties. While the collagen fibrils allow tendons to resist tensile stress, the proteoglycans allow them to resist compressive stress. The elongation and the strain of the collagen fibrils alone have been shown to be much lower than the total elongation and strain of the entire tendon under the same amount of stress, demonstrating that the proteoglycan-rich matrix must also undergo deformation, and stiffening of the matrix occurs at high strain rates.[16] These molecules are very hydrophilic, meaning that they can absorb a large amount of water and therefore have a high swelling ratio. Since they are noncovalently bound to the fibrils, they may reversibly associate and disassociate so that the bridges between fibrils can be broken and reformed. This process may be involved in allowing the fibril to elongate and decrease in diameter under tension

[QUOTE=EarthDragon;1054478]Tendons have been traditionally considered to simply be a mechanism by which muscles connect to bone, functioning simply to transmit forces. However, over the past two decades, much research focused on the elastic properties of tendons and their ability to function as springs. This allows tendons to passively modulate forces during locomotion, providing additional stability with no active work. It also allows tendons to store and recover energy at high efficiency. For example, during a human stride, the Achilles tendon stretches as the ankle joint dorsiflexes. During the last portion of the stride, as the foot plantar-flexes (pointing the toes down), the stored elastic energy is released. Furthermore, because the tendon stretches, the muscle is able to function with less or even no change in length, allowing the muscle to generate greater force.

The mechanical properties of the tendon are dependent on the collagen fiber diameter and orientation. The collagen fibrils are parallel to each other and closely packed, but show a wave-like appearance due to planar undulations, or crimps, on a scale of several micrometers.[13] In tendons, the collagen I fibres have some flexibility due to the absence of hydroxyproline and proline residues at specific locations in the amino acid sequence, which allows the formation of other conformations such as bends or internal loops in the triple helix and results in the development of crimps.[14] The crimps in the collagen fibrils allow the tendons to have some flexibility as well as a low compressive stiffness. In addition, because the tendon is a multi-stranded structure made up of many partially independent fibrils and fascicles, it does not behave as a single rod, and this property also contributes to its flexibility.[15]

The proteoglycan components of tendons also are important to the mechanical properties. While the collagen fibrils allow tendons to resist tensile stress, the proteoglycans allow them to resist compressive stress. The elongation and the strain of the collagen fibrils alone have been shown to be much lower than the total elongation and strain of the entire tendon under the same amount of stress, demonstrating that the proteoglycan-rich matrix must also undergo deformation, and stiffening of the matrix occurs at high strain rates.[16] These molecules are very hydrophilic, meaning that they can absorb a large amount of water and therefore have a high swelling ratio. Since they are noncovalently bound to the fibrils, they may reversibly associate and disassociate so that the bridges between fibrils can be broken and reformed. This process may be involved in allowing the fibril to elongate and decrease in diameter under tension[/QUOTE]

Cool extract. So, there is an elastic functionality too, yea, I feel that mostly as hyperextension I guess. During the acceleration phase, I can see how there could be some loading…

The way I understand it is that the little fibres pull and scar, pull and scar, and over the years the tendons build up to a larger size than average, but still have the full range of motion because they are always worked across that range.

Actually, it would be interesting to know if the range of flexibility actually increased, I get the feeling it does.

[QUOTE=EarthDragon;1054422]Youknowwho, there is a difference between muscle strength and tendon and strength, you dont have to lift weights to become stronger and win arm wrestlign contests.
[/quote]

Wait, was this a troll post?

Tendons don’t flex. There’s no such thing as “tendon strength.”

i know a old timeer who is a shoemaker, he did not have big muslces at all, but for holding shoes and cutting the thick leather soles for so many year he could break your hand whiule givin you a handshake. its all about the core or tendon strength rather than big bicepts

The dude in your shoemaker example just had an extremely efficient neurological pathway for that movement. It has nothing to do with his tendons or “tendon strength.”

Tendons connect muscle to bone. If you don’t have “tendon strength” you end up in the hospital after you try to pick something up.

“Tendon strength” is just a way for TMAs who don’t understand physiology at all to try and explain things. Sometimes they say silly things like “try to perform the movement with your tendons rather than your muscles” when someone is trying to muscle their way through a movement. That statement is hilarious on many levels:

  1. tendons have nothing to do with movement (therefore “moving with your tendons” is impossible)

  2. as if some noob student would know how to contract his tendons rather than his muscles (i mean, assuming it was possible in the first place)

  3. demonstrates a lack of knowledge on the part of the supposed “master”

[QUOTE=EarthDragon;1054468]YKW

yes sorry should have been more specific and said body building.
I actually got into body sculpting, crazy strict diet, no steriods use, aminos only, lifting daily, lighter weight 12-14reps 1 body part a per day, 4-5 excersizes per muscle, which cuts the heck out of you instead of bulk. starting to see individual lines in my shoulders quates an forearms[/QUOTE]

If you’re getting cut up from that it’s because of your diet. Weight training doesn’t burn sufficient calories to cause weight loss, even in the higher rep range. High reps has nothing to do with losing fat (getting cut). There are some people who only do 1-5 reps per set with heavy weights and are shredded as hell because of diet and/or genetics.

Weight and reps (and time under tension) plays a role in how strong you get, how much endurance you get (I’m talking endurance for a particular movement, not cardio endurance), and how much hypertrophy you induce, but has nothing to do with your bodyfat percentage or how “cut” you are. Your body fat percentage is close to 100% a result of your diet (you can help by doing cardio).

The whole “high reps makes you cut” thing is a leftover myth from the 50s and 60s which unfortunately many people still believe.

Now on to the video:

wtf @ rolling your hands around in those rocks. That looks painful as heck!

I have a feeling no one in that school would know what to do in a fight with a 200 pound weight lifter.

[QUOTE=IronFist;1054530]Now on to the video:

wtf @ rolling your hands around in those rocks. That looks painful as heck!

I have a feeling no one in that school would know what to do in a fight with a 200 pound weight lifter.[/QUOTE]

notice how every kid in the video either looks like an underweight scrawny nerdy kid who gets bullied in school or is overweight and obese?

Delusional kung fu fantasy LARPers screamin right there.

NOT DISSING scrawny underweight nerdy kids, FFS I was once in those shoes a long time ago too.

But just saying they look like that type. Even in the way they conduct the interviews, don’t seem very confident. :frowning:

[QUOTE=MasterKiller;1054365]I don’t do much weight training. A little kettlebell work, but mostly I work my core in class by picking people up and throwing them.[/QUOTE]

grappling, wrestling gives you retard strength… im suprised nobody has commented on what you said… there are lots of ways to strengthen the body… they all have some merrit… but i have noticed that the people who wrestle the most are usually the strongest… just a personal observation… i wish i had put more into it in my youth…

what is LARPing

L live

A action

R role

P playing

LARPing

[QUOTE=Violent Designs;1054535]L live

A action

R role

P playing

LARPing[/QUOTE]

i wouldve never gotten that on my own…

iron fist perhaps you should re read my posts I think you jumped the gun or perhaps I didnt explian it correctly. the examples you made are incorrect in refernce to what I wrote…

I actually got into body sculpting, crazy strict diet, no steriods use, aminos only, lifting daily, lighter weight 12-14reps 1 body part a per day, 4-5 excersizes per muscle, which cuts the heck out of you instead of bulk.

body sculpting is a combination of all these things which cuts instad of bulk. I never said just lifting high reps alone does this.. I’m NFPT certified adn this is part of the program that i train people in world gym. Also I copied tht tendon paragraph form a meidcal webiste, give it a read its very interesting.

[QUOTE=Violent Designs;1054532]notice how every kid in the video either looks like an underweight scrawny nerdy kid who gets bullied in school or is overweight and obese?

Delusional kung fu fantasy LARPers screamin right there.

NOT DISSING scrawny underweight nerdy kids, FFS I was once in those shoes a long time ago too.
[/quote]

Nerdy kids that get picked on are usually have a reason to join martial arts. I don’t think that is too uncommon in and of itself. They want to be able to defend themselves against bullies or whoever, so they join a martial arts school.

But just saying they look like that type. Even in the way they conduct the interviews, don’t seem very confident. :frowning:

They need to take some confident-speaking lessons from John R Allen of Green Dragon Studios. That dude is the most confident kung fu guy I’ve ever seen :eek:

Add IronFist to another person who has pwn3d ED and shown how clueless he is.

Is there “tendon strength”? Yes ,insofar as tendons get stronger when you strengthen muscles. Tendons are part of the force transfer equation.

Can you train tendon strength separately from muscular strength? Of course not. A basic knowledge of exercise physiology and anatomy would pretty much lead to understanding this conclusive fact.

The fact that ED believes this simply proves how worthless a NFPT certification is.

Someone who has a “real” certification is going to either have a degree in exercise science from a university and/or will have a cert from the American College of Sports Medicine and/or the National Strength and Conditioning Association (you can’t pass their tests without having a knowledge of exercise physiology and anatomy, which you seem to be able to do with the NFPT).

[QUOTE=EarthDragon;1054552]iron fist perhaps you should re read my posts I think you jumped the gun or perhaps I didnt explian it correctly. the examples you made are incorrect in refernce to what I wrote…

body sculpting is a combination of all these things which cuts instad of bulk. I never said just lifting high reps alone does this.. I’m NFPT certified adn this is part of the program that i train people in world gym. Also I copied tht tendon paragraph form a meidcal webiste, give it a read its very interesting.[/QUOTE]

A medical website? You copied it from wikipedia :slight_smile:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tendon

Even the part about a muscle having “no change in length” is referring to a millisecond during the human stride and more importantly says nothing about the muscle not contracting.

There’s no such thing as “tendon strength.” Tendons don’t contract. Any additional strength they may provide (such as the stride example in the wikipedia article) is minor and temporary in nature and there’s no way to even train it. “Oh yeah dude, I’m going to the gym to exercise my tendons today.” I mean sure, your tendons get stronger as your muscles get stronger as far as their tissue is concerned, but even that doesn’t matter for most people. In other words, trying to squat 800 pounds when you can only squat 400 pounds may possibly result in a tendon injury (or many other types of injuries), or sometimes people who use steroids may get tendon injuries as their muscles get stronger faster than their tendons can keep up with, but even in these cases their tendons are doing nothing other than connecting their muscle to their bone.

Arm wrestlers, shoe makers, etc., their strength has nothing to do with having “strong tendons” (outside of their tendons being tough enough to deal with the force generated by their muscles… which is the natural progression of developing strength over time).

For some reason people tend to think that skinny or “wiry” strength is somehow related to tendons. Maybe they think “oh that guy doesn’t have big muscles, therefore it must be something else.” I’ve heard people say that before.

Strength comes from muscles and neurological efficiency. Skinny people who are strong are strong because their muscles can contract hard. Obviously a big muscle has more potential than a smaller muscle (the absolute strongest people on the planet are big people) but strength is mostly neurological in nature (150 pound people who bench 400). Arm wrestlers, shoemakers, gymnasts (well, most upper level gymnasts aren’t really “skinny” so that was a bad example), mechanics, lightweight powerlifters; they’re strong because their muscles are strong, not because there’s anything special about their tendons.

Of course, Knife Fighter summed all this up in post #20 in much fewer words than I did. lol.

[QUOTE=IronFist;1054585]

Strength comes from muscles and neurological efficiency. Skinny people who are strong are strong because their muscles can contract hard. Obviously a big muscle has more potential than a smaller muscle (the absolute strongest people on the planet are big people) but strength is mostly neurological in nature (150 pound people who bench 400). Arm wrestlers, shoemakers, gymnasts (well, most upper level gymnasts aren’t really “skinny” so that was a bad example), mechanics, lightweight powerlifters; they’re strong because their muscles are strong, not because there’s anything special about their tendons.
[/QUOTE]

ED gets pwn3d once again.

This “tendon” thing has been discussed to death over the years on the Training forum. I’m not sure if the threads still exist.

This is Cliffs Notes of 95% of what you need to know:

http://kungfumagazine.com/forum/showpost.php?p=992858&postcount=30

http://kungfumagazine.com/forum/showpost.php?p=596926&postcount=8

And this post will make you more knowledgeable about all this good stuff than 95% of people you will meet:

http://kungfumagazine.com/forum/showpost.php?p=597242&postcount=2

Wait a second…are you guys actually arguing about whether or not tendon strength plays a role in overall strength?

Because it does and don’t get your research from threads in forums. lol
Go read a medical journal. it’s quite clear that tendon strength is key to overall strength and can be developed through specific exercises routines.

If a tendon loses optimal function, the rest fo the muscle it is associeated with, no matter teh size or potential will not function effectively.

and yes, resistance training strengthens tendons.

ligaments on the other hand are set in their ways. You cannot increase strength or length in these. You can only optimize to allow for full extension where required.

[QUOTE=David Jamieson;1054591]Wait a second…are you guys actually arguing about whether or not tendon strength plays a role in overall strength?

Because it does and don’t get your research from threads in forums. lol
Go read a medical journal. it’s quite clear that tendon strength is key to overall strength and can be developed through specific exercises routines.

If a tendon loses optimal function, the rest fo the muscle it is associeated with, no matter teh size or potential will not function effectively.

and yes, resistance training strengthens tendons.

ligaments on the other hand are set in their ways. You cannot increase strength or length in these. You can only optimize to allow for full extension where required.[/QUOTE]

What we are saying is that you cannot separate tendon strength from muscular strength and you cannot train specifically for only tendon strength.

What we are also saying is that the force producing tissues in the human body are the muscle fibers. Tendons are connective tissue. They do not produce force, although they are part of the muscle, tendon, bone force transfer.

“Tendon strength” in terms of force production makes about as much sense as does thinking bone strength has anything to do with producing force.