I got a few ideas from my post entitled “Stances in real fights?” …but they were clearly geared towards a different topic so i hope this thread is cool with everyone and isn’t too much of a repeat…
The Question: What do each of you feel the role of stance trainning is? Reason i ask is because i like to practice the stances, and just want to know why i’m doing it. I’ve heard of lots of reasons to. It’s just been years, looking for a refresher. Also any tips on doing it?
I recently was able to hold the horse stance for 9minutes (whew) I can probably go even longer now as that was a couple to a few weeks ago. Thanks for comments in advance everyone
i think stance training mainly has to do with building leg strength and endurance, as well as agility. The stronger your legs are the better/faster/stronger your kicks will be. It also is a good discipline to allow you to accept more pain.
[QUOTE=zhangxihuan;751822]i think stance training mainly has to do with building leg strength and endurance, as well as agility. The stronger your legs are the better/faster/stronger your kicks will be. It also is a good discipline to allow you to accept more pain.[/QUOTE]
Second the motion.
Many beginners who come in from a sedentary lifestyle often don’t have the joint strength in their knees that is necessary for strenuous training. Thus, there’s often a need for time to build up the strength via standing in the stances for progressively longer time periods, then learning how to move in them and to smoothly shift from one stance to another. It also helps the student understand body movement mechanics.
How do you feel it helps you dougadam? What do you feel it gives you that you would not otherwise have? I like the old stories like the 1000pound horse stance, and holding it for as long as an incense burns…and all the great stories, but i really wonder what the practical benefits are (hence why im posting this). I appretiate the comments so far
We use words like Mao bu, Ma bu, Gong bu and on and on and on with the BU.
I think that the word “Bu” was translated wrong.
Bu [bu4] pace; step i.e. march step, goose step [zheng4 bu4]; learn to walk [xue2 bu4]
So based on the way that bu is used (in Chinese) it has nothing to do with holding a stance for a long period of time to prove that you can hold it. When I was in China I asked many people about holding stances for significant amount of time. Everyone informed me that if you could hold a Bu for 30 seconds to a min then that was long enough. The real question was can you move from bu to bu indefinitely with perfect form?
The stories of holding a stance for long period of time were a weed out process. These practices were used to see if the potential student was willing to do what was asked. Because knowledge is kept very guarded in China, even today, people continually test your character. Chinese are constantly examining your dedication, resolve and what type of person you are.
I kind of look at it like swimming, I cannot float but I can swim (being too negative buoyant). Well, floating is good, but not if you are trying to move in the water. Stances are great to build some muscle and develop some endurance, but learning to move and transition from place to place is much more important.
Also, traditionally stances were done much closer than they are done now (with some exceptions). Ma bu (horse stance) was traditionally done at shoulder width. The reason that most people cannot do a level Ma Bu (thighs parallel to the floor, at shoulder width) is not lack of strength but lack of flexibility in the hips. Try doing a wall sit, you can hold it but take away the wall and it becomes very hard because of the balance issue.
The exceptions are styles like Hong Jia (hung gar) which has its roots after Xiaolin (shaolin) with the Red Boat Society. They would practice in the hulls of rocking junks, making their stances wider for greater stability.
Stance are isometric exercises. They have their place, but most people tend to use them. I’ve heard isometrics should compose about 30 % of leg training, That menas do your stances, but squat, stretch, and run too. They all have a place in training.
One thing I’ve wondered. Through training stances (more specifically the horse stance) is it possible to overdevelop the outer quadricep muscles ultimately leading to a muscular imbalance? I wonder this because I used to enjoy the horse stance until I started having a pain in my right knee. I later realized, through the help of physiotherapy and knee specialist that my medialis (inner quadricep) was underdeveloped causing the kneecap to track incorrectly (which I am now trying to fix through various exercises). I should really start a new thread for this question, with more depth.
Naw, stances won’t do much to put muscle on, or increase strength. Isometrics train you to ‘lock’ the muscle. You use this when you change direction quickly like in basketball, or when you’re stopping an incoming force like blocking in football or a grappling situation. You still want to do things like squats and deadlifts to gain size and strength, and stretching to keep you flexible.
Most people do waaay too much stance training. I’ve heard about 30 % of your total leg training is about right. If you do a horse stance properly a minute is a good achievement.
Stance training is to develop your structure/Skeletal alignment first and foremost. The secondary benifits are strength (At first), but once you can hold 1-2 minutes there is endurance.
Someone above mentioned developing the knees as well. Since many Kung Fu movements are hard on the knees, stance training is important to develope them as an injury prevention conditioning regment.
The horse stance alone is not enough. It is just the starter stance. You really need to hold all of the major stances used in your system, and holding a point in the middle of your transitions is good too.
I think those commenting holding each stance 1-2 minutes is enough have never really done serious stance work, and don’t know the bennifits. You really should be able to hold each on for 5-10 minutes each. If you work just the 5 most common stances, there is a good 1 hour workout right there, NOT counting your warmup and stretchout.
Stance training is very important. The strength and balance it helps build is very valuable.
When throwing, I can tell the difference between a person that can do 2 min of horse stance and a person that can do 10 min of horse stance. The 10 min guy can sink to nullify throws much more easily than the 2 min guy.
Wall sits (Roman chiars I assume) don’t build your structure very well. They teach you to lean back against the wall…which is the opposite of what you need in a fight.
A good 10 minute horse stance, or even longer, like 20-40 minutess will really develop not only the propper structure, but your ablity to hold it in place even when tired. This is especially so if you have partners pushing and pulling on you form various directions during the practice.
The same goes for all stances…you should be able to hold at least the major ones 20 - 30 minutes if you want to really see and feel what it is they do, and why we do them.
This translates into being difficult to uproot, or take down when under pressure.
Ok there…when we have our fight, I’ll show you what I mean…when will you be in Chicago next anyway? Don’t you have family here you need to visit sometime?
Man, are you still on that bull $hit? No offense Gian, but when I make it back home, I’m gonna have better things to do than run up to the North suburbs to play Kung Fu Hero with you.
[QUOTE=Water Dragon;755106]No, it really doesn’t.[/QUOTE]
Yes, it does. Not to feed RD’s ego, but I have been told by many of my grappling partners that they know when I’m working my KF stance training by how hard it is to throw me. I root better when I keep up on the stances.
I can probably go even longer now as that was a couple to a few weeks ago. Thanks for comments in advance everyone 