How in the heckin is this considered to be good or skillful? I have never understood why people revere people that can do this. You would practice tai ji for decades just so you could make someone move back a step? It also looks a little fake to me. It does not make sense to me
[QUOTE=SavvySavage;953667]
It also looks a little fake to me.
[/QUOTE]
you are a genius, yes indeed
[QUOTE=SavvySavage;953667]How in the heckin is this considered to be good or skillful? I have never understood why people revere people that can do this. You would practice tai ji for decades just so you could make someone move back a step? It also looks a little fake to me. It does not make sense to me
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l_gmMqzf2I8[/QUOTE]
People will do as they will and believe as they choose.
You don’t have to.
I certainly don’t. 
I observed certain skillful subtleties as well as more than a few gross over reactions.
As for the why? One man’s religion is another man’s belly laugh:rolleyes:
When I lived in New Orleans in the 60’s, I was aquainted with a gentleman that would do this stuff in a large city park. It looks like a skill that is not worth the effort, but it is actually a very passive defense style of fighting. He could prevent one from striking him and make him stand on his head or fly into hard objects. He could also shove your chest into your spine.
The funniest thing I guess I had ever seen, the first time I seen it, was a couple of young men doing some sort of mantis form. Then a white crane. I looked at it and imagined that it was more like some sort of ballet rather than shadow boxing. A tremendous amount of wasted energy and motion.
you dont want to hurt the old man but the old guy doesnt mind trying to hurt you cuz he feels supreior
i think in kung fu you need to respect elders but a lot of old people arent good , just because ur old doesnt automaticly mak u good
why r people so obsessed about push hands
???
its really ga y
[QUOTE=bawang;953817]why r people so obsessed about push hands
???
its really ga y[/QUOTE]
LOL YEAH,
I tell people, you spent years learning useless stuff. Then of course, they will deny the fact they spent years learning useless stuff.
If they admit it, they admit they wasted many years of their life.
I can only hope that I can move with agilities at that age.
If I may live to 93 year old that is.
[QUOTE=Violent Designs;953856]LOL YEAH,
I tell people, you spent years learning useless stuff. Then of course, they will deny the fact they spent years learning useless stuff.
If they admit it, they admit they wasted many years of their life.[/QUOTE]
It’s true that bad push hands is useless. However push hands is a very valuable drill especially if your style uses any type of sticking(the majority of styles do. at least they did). I believe that it is foolish to think that this is fighting or sparring. Or to believe that this is all that one needs is just as foolish.
It just like chi sao. A drill to help you understand and move with and/or move your opponent and when used for that purpose it has value. If you could feel your opponents energy before they use it, the attack would be really easy to counter.
But yeah dude, that vid really looks fake.
The old man’s technique is not that bad. He’s always has his door closed but it’s agile… yet it gets strong when he needs to keep the guy out. That’s good.
The other guy is all over the place, big swooping movements opening himself. I won’t criticize that though, because he’s probably humoring the old man. I would think the same about the over reaction.
Sticking hands are great. Pushing hands are great. Hitting hands are even better… each is a training method. Only hitting hand incorporates all three live. Once you understand the first two, the third trains them all.
This is pretty basic push hands using the four energies of peng, lu, ji, an. It gets more martial at the advanced level. Not to say that these energies aren’t martial, my old Tai Ji teacher would often lift his senior students off the ground using peng. But in addition to the 4 basic energies, you have the other energies which involve shoulder/hip slams, throws, breaks and small joint manipulation. Gotta learn the basics first though!
EO
It is what it is. An 80 year old man doing pummeling with a young wrestler and scores an ankle pick… it’s no secret what happened. The young guy let him do it. But that doesn’t mean pummeling is not essential for clinch work or that ankle picks are sneaky and crafty.
Learning to read, guide, unbalance, penetrate, draw in, uplift, sink… push hands teaches all those things.
As with wrestlers and pummeling, kung fu guys with push hands have to understand that these are training tools, not fighting itself.
don’t assume old people are weak.
[QUOTE=Ray Pina;954237]It is what it is. An 80 year old man doing pummeling with a young wrestler and scores an ankle pick… it’s no secret what happened. The young guy let him do it. But that doesn’t mean pummeling is not essential for clinch work or that ankle picks are sneaky and crafty.
Learning to read, guide, unbalance, penetrate, draw in, uplift, sink… push hands teaches all those things.
As with wrestlers and pummeling, kung fu guys with push hands have to understand that these are training tools, not fighting itself.[/QUOTE]
Pummeling is specific to what happens in real fighting. Push hands is not.
[QUOTE=Knifefighter;954552]Pummeling is specific to what happens in real fighting. Push hands is not.[/QUOTE]
It really depends upon which “push hands” you are doing
In the US, for reasons I am at a loss to explain, we’ve gravitated towards patty cake, no power, fairy, fake, BS push hands like the crap in this clip
But in Chen village at the international tournament, what they do in the name “push hands” is basicly Greco-Roman wrestling! I’ve seen similar format in Taiwan now…
IE in some places push hands = wrestling which is a proven martial art
This, ie the stuff in this clip, is however, bull dung
the best kung fu skill i have ever seen is iron peenis kung fu i really want to learn that skill
i saw on youtube master tu jing shen break a concrete slab with his wang now thats kung fu
I wonder how many hits he gets on his Match.com profile with that.
Ray,
I agree that pushing is important as a way to show that the other person can’t get in on you. But I don’t think that doing push hands endlessly like that is fruitful in terms of skill. What’s the point of studying a so called internal art for decades if the end goal is to just push the other person back a step?
standing post was standing in horse stance holding a 20 to 50 pound ball , now its standing very high holding a invisible qi ball because the imperial family were too weak to do that
same with push hands, its clinching but corrupted for training weak/sick/old people
two hand push hands set up for wrestling, one hand push hand is setup for elbow
the “dirty low class” stuff were removed to train high class rich people