We need to get down to business as martial artists. I’m in the East coast
and have a couple of venues for full contact sparring to test the theories many WC people hold to. Hopefully there are people in other areas that would be willing to start full contact events. It would be in a friendly environment with the goal being to test your WC. We had our first comp in Spanish Harlem against other styles. Yeah I know, you won’t see the perfect WC techs you see in cooperative drills (even like the ones I do), but you have to start somewhere. I see too much talk and not enough action. Now I know that all people who get into WC aren’t interested in fighting.
People do WC for varied reasons. The problem with that is the people who don’t try what they are taught will NEVER know if what they are taught works. That is a fact. I have a rep in NYC as a fighter. That’s why I was invited to be in the Urban Dragons documentary. They say that I am an exception. Most marital artists laugh at WC people. I think of us as a family and I get p***ed when I hear people dog WC.
I’ll bet there’ll be more talkers (if any), on this thread than takers. 
One thing that I have noticed is that hard training keeps people honest…egos have less room to expand.
Don’t do much full contact at the moment with my guys but lots of one step type practical drills with shin guards etc.
If you love wing chun then we should all work together to make our styles and systems grow an be respected in the martial arts world.
Merry Christmas
Paul
www.moifa.co.uk
[QUOTE=Paul T England;979097]One thing that I have noticed is that hard training keeps people honest…egos have less room to expand.
Don’t do much full contact at the moment with my guys but lots of one step type practical drills with shin guards etc.
If you love wing chun then we should all work together to make our styles and systems grow an be respected in the martial arts world.
Merry Christmas
Paul
www.moifa.co.uk[/QUOTE]
I agree and Merry Christmas to you.
Love This Post
[QUOTE=Paul T England;979097]One thing that I have noticed is that hard training keeps people honest…egos have less room to expand.
Don’t do much full contact at the moment with my guys but lots of one step type practical drills with shin guards etc.
If you love wing chun then we should all work together to make our styles and systems grow an be respected in the martial arts world.
Merry Christmas
Paul
www.moifa.co.uk[/QUOTE]
Spoken like a true scholar, honesty and hard work (without the ego) plays a major roll in ones development….
There is always someone better (physically and mentally) and there is a lot that we can learn from each other, even from the youngest minds (if sincere)…
It’s always less stressful then being the old guy that chases and yells at school children from stepping on the edge of his lawn on the way home from school…
Instead of that, one should realize that each child is a gem within his or her own world or families, which can bring more promising notes of achievement (their community or even the world) within the realm of higher education…
Let’s not intimidate the young ones in thinking that their physical prowess can carry them through life, and higher education or understanding (pondering) of any kind is a waste of time…
The higher the understanding the higher the reward becomes, make your mind the best weapon first before going physical… I hope and pray that’s what a surgeon does, before performing surgery….
Ali Rahim.
Remember, some of the best gladiators were high-ranking soldiers, highly trained in combat before even becoming famous gladiators…
Same goes for those in WestPoint; the best of the best…
Ali Rahim.
Man, I wish I lived on the east coast for this, it would be nice to have a little friendly sparring with some WC practitioners :).
[QUOTE=Phil Redmond;979087]I’ll bet there’ll be more talkers (if any), on this thread than takers. :([/QUOTE]
It’s just too far for most people. Smokers happen all over the country on a weekly basis. There is no need to travel for no real payoff.
“we need to get down to business” Really? Many of us have been, “down to business,” and continue to do so. Participation in your tournament is little indication of anyone’s sincerity.
You don’t need to start your own full-contact “events” (a really poor idea, IMO).
What a WCK practitioner who is interested in really developing his skill needs to do is do what any person interested in developing good fighting skills needs to do – go train (spar) with the best proven fighters you can find, and spend a lot of time (hundreds of hours) sparring with them. Practice making your art work against those fighters. Seeking out and sparring with karate people or other gung fu people is pointless (how can sparring with other poor fighters make you better?) – go spar with good, proven MMAists, muay thai fighters, boxers, etc.
This isn’t rocket science – if you want to develop good ground, grappling skills what should you do? Go train with good ground grapplers. Spend hundreds of hours sparring/rolling with them. It doesn’t matter what your style or art, in developing skill what matters is the amount of quality sparring that you do.
[QUOTE=t_niehoff;979220]You don’t need to start your own full-contact “events” (a really poor idea, IMO).
What a WCK practitioner who is interested in really developing his skill needs to do is do what any person interested in developing good fighting skills needs to do – go train (spar) with the best proven fighters you can find, and spend a lot of time (hundreds of hours) sparring with them. Practice making your art work against those fighters. Seeking out and sparring with karate people or other gung fu people is pointless (how can sparring with other poor fighters make you better?) – go spar with good, proven MMAists, muay thai fighters, boxers, etc.
This isn’t rocket science – if you want to develop good ground, grappling skills what should you do? Go train with good ground grapplers. Spend hundreds of hours sparring/rolling with them. It doesn’t matter what your style or art, in developing skill what matters is the amount of quality sparring that you do.[/QUOTE]
I agree with you about sparring with good people from outside of your school. I’m not trying to start my “own” full contact event. Maybe I should clarify. There many venues in NYC but I have a friend that will allow people to use his ring and cage for smokers.
[QUOTE=Phil Redmond;979224]I agree with you about sparring with good people from outside of your school. I’m not trying to start my “own” full contact event. Maybe I should clarify. There many venues in NYC but I have a friend that will allow people to use his ring and cage for smokers.[/QUOTE]
Having “smokers” against karate or other kung fu people is a waste of time. You mentioned in your first post that people laugh at WCK. Well, this sort of thing is one reason they laugh.
I could give you a whole list of other reasons – following the “system” of someone with no demonstrable fighting skill, using finger strikes to pressure points, form practice, talking about chi, teaching unrealistic techniques,
unrealistic training, etc.
If you think I am wrong or being harsh, go discuss these things over at mma.tv or bullshido and see what reception they get.
Just go and regularly cross-train at a good, proven MMA or MT school, and you will spar some decent, competent fighters every single class. Train like a fighter alongside other fighters.
Your posts are a waste of time.
The same old crap that always amounts to a giant lecture about fighting/application/training, etc. by someone who has never shown anyone around here literally ANYTHING of what he can do.
Who do you think you’re kidding, anyway?! :rolleyes:
[QUOTE=Ultimatewingchun;979243]Your posts are a waste of time.[/QUOTE]
Then don’t read them.
[QUOTE=t_niehoff;979241]Having “smokers” against karate or other kung fu people is a waste of time. You mentioned in your first post that people laugh at WCK. Well, this sort of thing is one reason they laugh.
I could give you a whole list of other reasons – following the “system” of someone with no demonstrable fighting skill, using finger strikes to pressure points, form practice, talking about chi, teaching unrealistic techniques,
unrealistic training, etc.
If you think I am wrong or being harsh, go discuss these things over at mma.tv or bullshido and see what reception they get.
Just go and regularly cross-train at a good, proven MMA or MT school, and you will spar some decent, competent fighters every single class. Train like a fighter alongside other fighters.[/QUOTE]
You assume too much. We don’t only fight with TMAs. We have a Pro boxer and other good MMA people. 
[QUOTE=Ultimatewingchun;979243]Your posts are a waste of time.
The same old crap that always amounts to a giant lecture about fighting/application/training, etc. by someone who has never shown anyone around here literally ANYTHING of what he can do.
Who do you think you’re kidding, anyway?! :rolleyes:[/QUOTE]
Agreed, we NEVER see any of what Terence does yet he criticizes everyone else. Then he makes assumptions that some of us only train with scrubs. He can’t possibly know who I, you, or any of us train with. Now if he asks for video proof I can provide it if he provides at least one vid of himself. Otherwise. . . . .:rolleyes:
[QUOTE=Phil Redmond;979260]You assume too much. We don’t only fight with TMAs. We have a Pro boxer and other good MMA people. ;)[/QUOTE]
I don’t assume, I base my conclusions on the evidence you yourself have presented – you put up tons of clips, but you never put up any with your pro boxer or good MMA people, but you do put up clips of sparring with kung fu and karate people.
And, I have trouble believing that you guys train with a pro boxer or good MMA people based on the things you show on your clips – that sort of experience would show you rather quickly that many of the techniques you present are unrealistic.
[QUOTE=Phil Redmond;979261]Agreed, we NEVER see any of what Terence does yet he criticizes everyone else. Then he makes assumptions that some of us only train with scrubs. He can’t possibly know who I, you, or any of us train with. Now if he asks for video proof I can provide it if he provides at least one vid of himself. Otherwise. . . . .:rolleyes:[/QUOTE]
I criticize everything, even what I do. Critical analysis – which involves an attitude of NOT taking anything for granted as true or valid – is in short supply here.
I base my view that you train with scrubs on the stuff that you show – which would only work against scrubs (for example, how often are you able to pull off your double pak sao - where you pak sao a punch with both hands at the same time – on the pro boxer or good MMA fighters?). I think that anyone who trains with decent fighters would KNOW better. If you train with good people, and have put up I don’t know how many clips of yourself and your students, why don’t you ever put up any of the good guys?
If you don’t want your clips criticized or people to form opinions based on what clips you do present, then don’t present them. You brought up how you don’t like people to “dog” WCK. Well, the stuff you are presenting is part of the problem – you show mostly unrealistic techniques and your guys sparring with scrubs and somehow think that this will change people’s (the fighters) perceptions of WCK people? Are you kidding? If you don’t believe me, take those things over to mma.tv or sherdog or bullshido and see what they think. You’ll see that your clips are received just as I say.
As far as clips of myself go, I don’t think what I do is worthy of being put up on youtube. I’m not that good. But, at least I realize that – which comes from training with some good fighters. And that’s what I mean: if you put in the time training with good MMA fighters or pro boxers, you too wouldn’t believe you were very good and you’d be embarrassed to present those unrealistic techniques.
T,
You’re honest; please never change your style and way of posting for no one…
Ali Rahim.
[QUOTE=t_niehoff;979329]I criticize everything, even what I do. Critical analysis – which involves an attitude of NOT taking anything for granted as true or valid – is in short supply here.
I base my view that you train with scrubs on the stuff that you show – which would only work against scrubs (for example, how often are you able to pull off your double pak sao - where you pak sao a punch with both hands at the same time – on the pro boxer or good MMA fighters?). I think that anyone who trains with decent fighters would KNOW better. If you train with good people, and have put up I don’t know how many clips of yourself and your students, why don’t you ever put up any of the good guys?
If you don’t want your clips criticized or people to form opinions based on what clips you do present, then don’t present them. You brought up how you don’t like people to “dog” WCK. Well, the stuff you are presenting is part of the problem – you show mostly unrealistic techniques and your guys sparring with scrubs and somehow think that this will change people’s (the fighters) perceptions of WCK people? Are you kidding? If you don’t believe me, take those things over to mma.tv or sherdog or bullshido and see what they think. You’ll see that your clips are received just as I say.
As far as clips of myself go, I don’t think what I do is worthy of being put up on youtube. I’m not that good. But, at least I realize that – which comes from training with some good fighters. And that’s what I mean: if you put in the time training with good MMA fighters or pro boxers, you too wouldn’t believe you were very good and you’d be embarrassed to present those unrealistic techniques.[/QUOTE]
It’s nice that you’ve admitted that you’re not that good. Even more reason for me to ignore your criticisms.
[QUOTE=t_niehoff;979329] . . . .
As far as clips of myself go, I don’t think what I do is worthy of being put up on youtube. I’m not that good. But, at least I realize that – which comes from training with some good fighters. And that’s what I mean: if you put in the time training with good MMA fighters or pro boxers, you too wouldn’t believe you were very good and you’d be embarrassed to present those unrealistic techniques.[/QUOTE]
With regards to training with scrubs. You’re still assuming. I have nothing to prove to you so keep guessing. I’ve fought full contact against some good fighters one of whom was a pro. So I do know a little something about full contact. It’s nice that you’ve admitted that you’re not that good. Even more reason for me to ignore your criticisms.