http://www.bltsupplies.com/interview/yee/int4yee.html
In this interview, sifu Frank Yee of the Tang Fong lineage states, "First, I would like to say that there are three main styles of Hung Ga. The first is called Shaolin Temple Hung Ga. Some famous practitioners of this style were: Tit Kiu Sam, Ngam Yiu Ding, Ngam Dim Hung. The second style was called Hung Men. The revolutionaries who fought against the Ching government practiced this style. The third founded by Hung Hei Gune during the 1700s and systematized by Wong Fei Hung. This is the style most commonly seen today.
I find this to be very interesting. Most times when I encounter talk about Hung Gar outside of Wong Fei Hung lineage, its blanketed over with the general term, Village Hung Gar. This quote sheds some light but also raises questions. What are the differences between Shaolin Temple Hung Gar, Hung Men Hung Gar, and the Hung Gar that Wong Fei Hung learned from his father before he combined all that he learned? What are each of these styles of Hung Gar like? And since these are described as the three main styles of Hung Gar, I’m thinking that means there are others. What are some of those? I wonder where Ha Say Fu fits into all this.
Some of Wong Fei Hungs forming of his Hung Gar is described below.
A little known fact is that present day Hung Ga has relationships with all three methods. Wong Fei Hung was a member of the Hung Men association, thus having learned their Kung Fu. He also learned the Tiet Sing Kuen, Iron Wire form from Tit Kiu Sam of the Shaolin Temple Hung Ga lineage. He then combined the knowledge of Tiger Crane Techniques obtained from Luk Ah Choy and his father, thus creating the version seen today."
This is an excellent post/question. When you state: “A little known fact is that present day Hung Ga has relationships with all three methods. Wong Fei Hung was a member of the Hung Men association, thus having learned their Kung Fu.”
Of course this logically brings up the question…if WFH is known for his own lineage as it were (LSW lineage) and he was also a member of the Hung Men..and if HM was indeed a separate style of HG..is it possible that both LSW lineage and Hung Men were part of the same style and at some point a pivotal moment came where there was a split?
Intruiging to say the least. What would be especially interesting would be if someone could post a list of forms for both “Shaolin temple Hung Ga” as well as “Hung Men” Hung Ga..
I dont believe that in shaolin was a style called hung gar…hung gar derived out of shaolin tiger style..and then went in different directions.actually with every new generation the style went different ways…And thats why there are different interpretations of hung kuen..some added something some got rid of something some changed something etc.
hung gar doesn’t evolve from just the tiger style. its a blend of both hard and soft, it incorperates all the five animals as well as the five elements. shaolin hung ga is most likely spread from gee shims other students.
While tiger style of shaolin is definitely a primary flavour in Hung, it is worthy of Note that Hong chuan (red fist) is an old shaolin style and is expressed in both the modern large and small red fist sets as well as being connected with the Tai tzu Chang Chuan
when these shaolin ways are interspersed with the five animals styles, you can say that there is indeed a shaolin temple hung family.
Many Hung Kuen families do not attribute their arts to Wong fei-hung and Instead make the connection as Shaolin Hung, Shaolin Tiger, Shaolin Tiger/Crane, Sil Lum Hung Kuen instead of WFH Hung Gar and so on.
The families with direct lineage to Wong Fei Hung always make that connection because that’s how it is with those families. Many others merely make the connection with the temple itself or the tiger/crane styling from five animals or simply the tiger styling.
I agree with Yee’s assessment of things in that respect.
although Hung-Ga is five animals, it places greatest emphasis on The Tiger.
Hung Mun was a patriotic organization, with “cells” throughout Southern China. I am sure there were many variations being taught. Nowadays, in Hung Mun, many different styles are taught-some teach Southern Mantis, Some CLF, some Hung-Ga. All however, seem to teach styles based on “Fan Ching,Fuk Ming.”
[QUOTE=David Jamieson;783298]While tiger style of shaolin is definitely a primary flavour in Hung, it is worthy of Note that Hong chuan (red fist) is an old shaolin style and is expressed in both the modern large and small red fist sets as well as being connected with the Tai tzu Chang Chuan
[/QUOTE]
This is where it gets really confusing, pretty sure the northern style’s name is “Red fist”, but the hanzi they use for the form names on martialartsmart is different, it’s actually “flood” like southern hung gar.
Says so right on the cover: http://www.martialartsmart.net/pr-gs002.html
It was originally published in the January 1999 issue of IKF under the title Original Hung Gar: The Tangled Roots of a Powerful Kung Fu and republished (although with no additional compensation to me) in the Ultimate Martial Arts Encyclopedia. It’s one of my most often quoted articles beyond Iron *****: Not for Men Only!
OK, end of rant.
As for Hung Men, there is another style that bears the Hung Men moniker but seems to have little relation to Hung Gar in terms of technique. It’s popular in Taiwan and Sichuan (regions where the ROC fled during the PRC takeover). We did two-part article series about the background of Hung Men in Taiwan in our 2003 May/June & Jul/Aug issues - Behind The Big Door Part I: Secrets of Taiwan’s Hung Men Conspiracy & Behind the Big Door Part II: Taiwan Secret of Hung Men Salutes, Tribunal Halls and the Rituals of Exotic Lion Dance.
Fu-Pow sez."I thought the crane in Tiger/Crane came from Lama/Hop Gar? "
True. While the long arm techniques and element punches are credited to WFH’s interraction with Wong Yun-Lum, the short-hand crane techniques are more typically Southern as seen in Fukien White Crane.
Yeah, I think TenTigers hit the nail on the head when he described the Hung Men and Kung Fu. Practitioners of many styles can be found in their ranks throughout history. However, the interview states that there is a Hung Gar specific to the Hung Mun. However, this does not mean that Hung Gar masters of other lineages are not found in the organization. For one example, the interview states that Wong Fei Hung was. And doesn’t the “Hung” in Hung Hei Goon, Hung Mun, and Hung Kuen, all derive from the Ming Emperor of that name as well as red, the color of the red junks?
[QUOTE=GeneChing;783330]As for Hung Men, there is another style that bears the Hung Men moniker but seems to have little relation to Hung Gar in terms of technique. It’s popular in Taiwan and Sichuan (regions where the ROC fled during the PRC takeover).[/QUOTE]
Links and/or videos?
in China nobody uses “village Hung Kyun”, it is just another western (and incorrect) term (= redneck Hung Kyun?!). the right term is lou Hung Kyun, old Hung Kyun.
Wong Feihung’s/Lam Saiwing’s system is called in China Fu Hok Hung Kyun, “Tiger and Crane Hung Kyun”, to distinguish it from other non-Wong Fei Hung Hung Kyun systems - saam jin Hung Kyun (Three Stretches Hung kyun), ng ying Hung Kyun (five animals Hung Kyun) etc. never heard of ha sei fu Hung Kyun in the areas i have been to (Fatsaan, Gwongjau… )
The shaolin Hong Quan sets - “Da Hong Quan”, “Xiao Hong Quan” are not related AFAIK, and definately use the character for “red” in their names, instead of a surname.
However there is another northern Hong Quan style(s) which uses the same surname (ie meaning “flood”) in the name, but also has nothing to do with WFH/ Gee Sin Hung Gar… If remember correctly it is a much older system (believed to be many hundreds, if not 1000 yrs old) related to Tai-Zu. It may or may not be related to the shaolin red-fist sets, but I doubt it, as those as much more recent.
Then there’s allegedly some southern “red-boat” styles, and again Yuen Kik-Kai’s “five-patern” Hung Kuen, which IMO is also completely unrelated to WFH Hung Ga (asides from being another revolutionary style practised in the same period).
[QUOTE=mok;783609]The shaolin Hong Quan sets - “Da Hong Quan”, “Xiao Hong Quan” are not related AFAIK, and definately use the character for “red” in their names, instead of a surname.
However there is another northern Hong Quan style(s) which uses the same surname (ie meaning “flood”) in the name, but also has nothing to do with WFH/ Gee Sin Hung Gar… If remember correctly it is a much older system (believed to be many hundreds, if not 1000 yrs old) related to Tai-Zu. It may or may not be related to the shaolin red-fist sets, but I doubt it, as those as much more recent.
Then there’s allegedly some southern “red-boat” styles, and again Yuen Kik-Kai’s “five-patern” Hung Kuen, which IMO is also completely unrelated to WFH Hung Ga (asides from being another revolutionary style practised in the same period).[/QUOTE]
Yeah Mok the Yuen Kik Kai version allegedly comes from Fong Sai Yuk…More confusion…
people in china don’t use “village” hung kuen, because that is a term that Gene coined in one of his articles.
I believe it is exclusive to people who read his work and this magazine and those who listen to those who read the above.
but, when I talk to the older fellows, yes, it is merely “old” Hung Kuen.
old hung kuen to me is a lot tighter. smaller frame, shorter stances (no big square horse really or long bow and arrow etc), more abrupt in it’s attacks and in my opinion looks and feels more practical as far as fighting style goes. Closer to a boxing regimen with a kick here and there a throw a grab, but a lot of attacks to the head with palms, elbows, forearms and fists.
I don’t think there is a lot of this about in kungfu anymore. People have a tendency to lean towards the more popular versions of styles. Often this is a thing about having identity and inclusion within a given community. For some people it is even better if the community is particularly esoteric, but not exceptionally demanding of them as individuals. It fortifies their own views of themselves as apart, different and special which is a desire of almost every person. BUt that’s a whole other tangent.
In the meantime, village style of a given art is an ok description if you have a shaky lineage or there is obvious and drastic differences from what is popularly regarded as a given thing.
the term 'Village Hung Kuen" existed before any article. I had heard my Sifu use this term for years, although it has been definately thrown around more as of late.
