The TCMA is more than just fighting

Wai Jia: The Kung Fu Forum Kung Fu Forum
21

Guess I have to be the one looking for a Bone inside an Egg again???

I can’t believe all combat hype i’m reading…and not the majority of people feel the way some of you guys do.

Too many factors to just SUM up TCMA training into just “One Sphere” of fighting.

All you guys must have chips on your shoulders and are Forever ready to kick someones a$$. So all you combat loving guys fight 24/7… I don’t believe it.

Everyones different:
Up till my 20’s yes, I thought allot about combat.

Through my 30’s Life goes on and family and I focus more on my kids. it’s only natural. But I never stop training.

Now in my early 40’s I focus on improving my self and yes teaching too.

You cannot teach a person to be a fighter or like combat…it’s in a persons’ nature or NOT.

My personality is always, If someone steps in my face and gives me sh!t, YEAH THEN, I’m ready to kick his A$$. But to say that the bulk of training should be comsumed by a desire for combat is nonsense.

I consider myself in really good shape, I can fight now better and smarter then I ever could. I have no significan’t injuries…but I don’t go looking for trouble in this part of my life. Yes I do like combat, but only because it’s my personality.

There is nothing wrong that I also enjoy my Martial / Arts for other reasons…OTHER than just the combat aspect. There is nothing wrong if I want to do it also for the reasons YouKnowWho listed. So what if I also want to improve health or that I do for enjoyment? Mabe I like it.

It’s like saying you can only like ONE type of music…BULL Sh!T, if it makes you happy and do it…so be it.

YouKnowWho… every thing is black and white with you dude, you have to learn “Shades of Grey” Man.

22

[QUOTE=Subitai;1193661]My personality is always, If someone steps in my face and gives me sh!t, YEAH THEN, I’m ready to kick his A$$. But to say that the bulk of training should be comsumed by a desire for combat is nonsense.[/QUOTE]

“O”

What was the original reason for the creation of any Martial Arts in the beginning of time?

The answer is SELF PRESERVATION.

I do not go around picking fights nor would I enjoy getting into any fights… at all. But the real reason I started training in martial arts is cuz I saw Quai Chan Caine kick a$$ back in the 70’s as a kid.

Not cuz I enjoyed the training.

Not cuz I wanted to become healthier

Not cuz I wanted to teach it some day.

Cuz I wanted to learn how to defend myself like that character did on TV.

Now, I enjoy teaching, I enjoy Qi Gong and getting healthy but the true intent of my training is still combative. I still like to roll around on the matt. I still like to spar. I still enjoy drilling with my kung fu brothers here.

Yes, you can enjoyment from Martial arts other than fighting / combat. However, looking at the original nature of kung fu… what is it really supposed to be?

ginosifu

23

Guess I have to be the one looking for a Bone inside an Egg again???

I can’t believe all combat hype i’m reading…and not the majority of people feel the way some of you guys do.

Too many factors to just SUM up TCMA training into just “One Sphere” of fighting.

All you guys must have chips on your shoulders and are Forever ready to kick someones a$$. So all you combat loving guys fight 24/7… I don’t believe it.

Everyones different:
Up till my 20’s yes, I thought allot about combat.

Through my 30’s Life goes on and family and I focus more on my kids. it’s only natural. But I never stop training.

Now in my early 40’s I focus on improving my self and yes teaching too.

You cannot teach a person to be a fighter or like combat…it’s in a persons’ nature or NOT.

My personality is always, If someone steps in my face and gives me sh!t, YEAH THEN, I’m ready to kick his A$$. But to say that the bulk of training should be comsumed by a desire for combat is nonsense.

I consider myself in really good shape, I can fight now better and smarter then I ever could. I have no significan’t injuries…but I don’t go looking for trouble in this part of my life. Yes I do like combat, but only because it’s my personality.

There is nothing wrong that I also enjoy my Martial / Arts for other reasons…OTHER than just the combat aspect. There is nothing wrong if I want to do it also for the reasons YouKnowWho listed. So what if I also want to improve health or that I do for enjoyment? Mabe I like it.

It’s like saying you can only like ONE type of music…BULL Sh!T, if it makes you happy and do it…so be it.

YouKnowWho… every thing is black and white with you dude, you have to learn “Shades of Grey” Man.

24

[QUOTE=ginosifu;1193671]What was the original reason for the creation of any Martial Arts in the beginning of time?[/QUOTE]
Through the ancient history, men

  • first fight against nature,
  • later on fight against animal,
  • finally fight against other men.

This is the origin of TCMA. It’s killed or not to be killed.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZF3mjfL7NpU

25

To Each his own man…

What was the original purpose of Archery? Let me guess, FOOD? or Protection or War… right?

Why should I practice it now in my yard (which I do shoot long bow)
… if MAJORITY of the time, I don’t kill things to eat? Or Protect myself or make war on my fellow man?

Because I enjoy the challenge and the concentration it brings me. Nobody can convince me that it’s a waist of time.

Your too rigid Gino… Sure lots of things have an original purpose but they evolve…just like our culture and technology.

So I say, who cares about the original intent of it…what matters to me is YES even though I like fighting, I also believe that TCMA is more than just fighting.

Sue me. :rolleyes:

26

[QUOTE=Subitai;1193661]you have to learn “Shades of Grey” …[/QUOTE]

When you throw your opponent over your head, it’s good for your health. It’s not good for your opponent’s health. Where is the grey area?

27

Of course we can use TCMA to:

  • improve health. But we can run, walk, swim, lift weight, …
  • achieve self-cultivation. But we can go to church, temple, bible study, …
  • have fun. But we can play tennis, golf, make love, …
  • understand art. But we can dance, paint, play piano, …
  • …
    What’s your though?

But… With MA you get all those things at the same time…making it awesome. Why do people build models? Collect stamps? Do anything?

I don’t get how learning how to punch someone in the face and knock them out, how learning how to breaks bones and crack ribs and choke someone unconscious or learning how to hurt someone real bad = fun, health and spiritual cultivation.

Spiritual Cultivation is about confronting all sides of your human nature. Violence is a gigantic part, and one that most people lock away. Confronting it through MA allows one to absorb it without being consumed by it.

I think that the reason people say that stuff is this:
Fighting hurts and not everyone is “built” for fighting, most people are basically sheep and pansies.
The don’t like fighting BUT they still like to “role play” being “martial artists”.

No, no-one likes fighting. It does hurt. YOu find the people who say they like fighting actually don’t like fighting, they like beating someone up. Turn it around on them and they change their tune too. It is not a fight when you beat on someone who barely hits back. It is an assault and people who enjoy that are in prison or on their way there. A fight is when you have to struggle to conquer. People who boast about ‘never losing’ ….Well, just sounds to me like they never had a fight, just bullied some people. Wushu does not mean Martial Arts even, it is Lit. ‘Art of stopping violence’.

28

i do think i remember reading in a few sources that the oldest translation of wushu is the art of resisting the spear. which would make sense, seeing as how the spear is pretty much the mother of all weapons.

29

[QUOTE=YouKnowWho;1193620]
What’s your though?[/QUOTE]

culture and tradition

[QUOTE=Lucas;1193679]i do think i remember reading in a few sources that the oldest translation of wushu is the art of resisting the spear. which would make sense, seeing as how the spear is pretty much the mother of all weapons.[/QUOTE]

wu means using the spear to stop resistance.

30

[QUOTE=bawang;1193680]culture and tradition

wu means using the dagger axe to stop a conflict. its a pictogram from stone age.[/QUOTE]

I don’t think it means using a ‘Ge’ to stop conflict, in the pictogram the ‘Ge’ is the conflict. It just means to stop conflict.

‘Ge’ is a stick with a blade on the end but pointing perpendicularly out. Like you say, Dagger Axe.

31

[QUOTE=bawang;1193680]

wu means using the spear to stop resistance.[/QUOTE]

ahhh

but what if you dont have a spear and only have a baby?

32

[QUOTE=RenDaHai;1193681]

‘Ge’ is a stick with a blade on the end but pointing perpendicularly out. Like you say, Dagger Axe.[/QUOTE]

peace -> grain + mouth

war -> conflict + spear

[QUOTE=Lucas;1193682]ahhh

but what if you dont have a spear and only have a baby?[/QUOTE]

baby are high in fat. they are good incendiary weapons

33

[QUOTE=YouKnowWho;1193620]
If “combat” is not important to you then why do you want to train “hammer fist”, “upper cut”, “foot sweep”, “hip throw”, “wrist lock”, … What’s the reason that you spend 2 hours infront of your heavy bag daily but you don’t care about “combat”? Do 2 men drills and equipment training have any meaning for those who don’t care about fighting? Is “solo drill/form” the only thing that you train if “combat” is not on your priority list? Will Fajin (power generation) be needed if “health” is your main goal?
[/QUOTE]

Combat is of course important to everyone who trains Kung Fu. Combat is important to everyone on the planet. Combat is intrinsic to our nature, our essence.

Combat at its most primitive exists as physical violence. At its most primitive MA is to entrain the ability to commit violence. But this is no longer a good thing in our world . Once civilisation begins the nature of MA changes.

Violence is a thing of Evil. But as with many things it is Evil only when it is undisciplined. Used wisely in the hand of a skilful man it can bring relief where there is suffering. So in todays world the MA are inseparable from wisdom. The wisdom of how and when to use it. Kung Fu begins with combat but teaches wisdom.

As a society becomes great so wisdom becomes more respected than all other things. These vast systems of Kung Fu are unnecessary if you only consider combat. If you only want to be good at fighting then you do not need Kung Fu.

You only really need the ability to commit violence. Do you need powerful strikes too? Why learn to hit the heavy bag so hard? If your wrists are unwrapped and your hand ungloved and you punch that hard against a human skull you will smash your hand to pieces. So why spend so long on it?
Why? Because practicing a skill is a catalyst. The pursuit of it Changes ones perception.

‘From the perpetual pursuit of the highest springs a series of realisations, each of which gives us the joy and pride of conquest. We use these realisations, these advantages gained over ourselves, in the realisation of another ideal which, once attained will allow us to pursue yet another of a form more nearly perfect.’ - Yoritomo Minamoto, 1st Shogun of Japan

TO Consider any one thing as only its perceived function is. unimaginative

But these things, they are intertwined inside our human nature. We want to reanimate all the forces that lie dormant in our natures. I said that the violence of MA was inseperable from the wisdom, well as is the wisdom from the violence. They are trained together, not one without the other.

34

Character:
force / military / warlike / martial / footprints / steps / the length of half a pace / the string of an ancient hat / to inherit / a Chinese family name

Etymology ():
Remnant Primitive, to walk with a weapon - military

http://www.chineseetymology.org/CharacterEtymology.aspx?submitButton1=Etymology&characterInput=%E6%AD%A6

Character:

a spear / a lance / a javelin / a Chinese family name

Etymology ():
Remnant Primitive, A long handled non descript instrument - usually a hoe or ax

http://www.chineseetymology.org/CharacterEtymology.aspx?submitButton1=Etymology&characterInput=%E6%88%88

Character:
to stop / to desist / to still / to rest in / to stay / deportment / to detain / to prohibit / to come to / to arrive at / still / calm / stagnant / only

Etymology ():
Remnant Primitive, Foot

all have feet in them. One or Two, pointing up, down, right or left. (They all have to do with motion, see )

http://www.chineseetymology.org/CharacterEtymology.aspx?submitButton1=Etymology&characterInput=%E6%AD%A2

35

[QUOTE=RenDaHai;1193686]Combat at its most primitive exists as physical violence. [/QUOTE]

Combat is not violance. Your friend comes to visit you, you throw him a wrestling jacket (or boxing gloves), You and your friend wrestle (or spar) for 15 rounds, have good time, and then enjoy nice meal on dinner table. This kind of fun, even money can’t buy.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=we1SipG531A

36

[QUOTE=YouKnowWho;1193690]Combat is not violance. Your friend comes to visit you, you throw him a wrestling jacket (or boxing gloves), You and your friend wrestle (or spar) for 15 rounds, have good time, and then enjoy nice meal on dinner table. This kind of fun, even money can’t buy.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=we1SipG531A[/QUOTE]

Combat AT ITS MOST PRIMITIVE exists as physical violence

Frankly I’m a little dissapointed thats all you took away from my post…

37

[QUOTE=YouKnowWho;1193620]

What’s your though?[/QUOTE]

Fighting skills are consisted of 3 skills.

1 weapon skills.

2 striking skills.

3 throwing skills.

I would add running and dodging skills.

If you think you may prevail, you fight.

If not, run.

So I include running and swimming as “fighting” skills.

You want to be at your physical best at any moment of your life.

so that you may out run your opponent if needed.

Health and fitness exercises are all part of it.

Take home maxims.

We may lose fights but do not lose health.

so that we may live to fight in another day.

In short, knowing how and when not to fight

is as important as knowing how and when to fight.

:cool:

38

“Combat” can be a lot of “fun”. It doesn’t have to be “violence”. I don’t think we should associate “combat” with “violence”. We should associate “combat” with “fun” instead. You just can’t get this kind of “fun” in “solo” training. How much fun can you have when you play chess game against yourself?

In the following clip, I don’t see any “violence” at all.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z92vxyFBHgE

39

[QUOTE=YouKnowWho;1193699]“Combat” can be a lot of “fun”. It doesn’t have to be “violence”. I don’t think we should associate “combat” with “violence”. We should associate “combat” with “fun” instead. You just can’t get this kind of “fun” in “solo” training. How much fun can you have when you play chess game against yourself?

In the following clip, I don’t see any “violence” at all.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z92vxyFBHgE[/QUOTE]

Well thats fine. But Fighting IS about violence. It is about confronting it, committing it and receiving it. If we want MA to be all about fighting then it is all about violence. The type of Combat you talk about has another name, ‘sport’. It is a wonderful pursuit we’ll all agree. ANd it is fine to make your MA about sport. But sport is not violence (entirely). Fighting is about violence. Real violence. And when we say it like that it suddenly seems less savoury… We spend hours a day practicing and contemplating violence. For our very sanity MA must be about other things as well…

40

[QUOTE=RenDaHai;1193686]Combat is of course important to everyone who trains Kung Fu. Combat is important to everyone on the planet. Combat is intrinsic to our nature, our essence.

Combat at its most primitive exists as physical violence. At its most primitive MA is to entrain the ability to commit violence. But this is no longer a good thing in our world . Once civilisation begins the nature of MA changes.

Violence is a thing of Evil. But as with many things it is Evil only when it is undisciplined. Used wisely in the hand of a skilful man it can bring relief where there is suffering. So in todays world the MA are inseparable from wisdom. The wisdom of how and when to use it. Kung Fu begins with combat but teaches wisdom.

As a society becomes great so wisdom becomes more respected than all other things. These vast systems of Kung Fu are unnecessary if you only consider combat. If you only want to be good at fighting then you do not need Kung Fu.

You only really need the ability to commit violence. Do you need powerful strikes too? Why learn to hit the heavy bag so hard? If your wrists are unwrapped and your hand ungloved and you punch that hard against a human skull you will smash your hand to pieces. So why spend so long on it?
Why? Because practicing a skill is a catalyst. The pursuit of it Changes ones perception.

‘From the perpetual pursuit of the highest springs a series of realisations, each of which gives us the joy and pride of conquest. We use these realisations, these advantages gained over ourselves, in the realisation of another ideal which, once attained will allow us to pursue yet another of a form more nearly perfect.’ - Yoritomo Minamoto, 1st Shogun of Japan

TO Consider any one thing as only its perceived function is…. unimaginative

But these things, they are intertwined inside our human nature. We want to reanimate all the forces that lie dormant in our natures. I said that the violence of MA was inseperable from the wisdom, well as is the wisdom from the violence. They are trained together, not one without the other.[/QUOTE]

“Kung Fu begins with combat but teaches wisdom.” That is the objective. I didn’t understand that 15 years ago, but I’m beginning to. When I’m 90 I won’t be able to throw a tornado kick, but if you learn wisdom, you probably won’t have to.