Sad, sad, sad. No wonder why you don’t realize the value of stance work
Maybe he just realizes the difference between form and function.
Form is just how you look, a movement such as the intergrated dimensions of a stance or how your body presents itself to a viewer. Function is how you actually perform, by the success of a application of a move.
Let’s not even get into the fact that in a non-sparring encounter your stance is whatever you are in at the time.
Form is just how you look, a movement such as the intergrated dimensions of a stance or how your body presents itself to a viewer. Function is how you actually perform, by the success of a application of a move.
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Umm, arent form and function supposed to be the same? For a bow stance for instance, it’s used in throws and takedowns done with Diagonal cut. The bow stance is identical in the take down as it is used when practicing diagonal cut. There is no difference between form and function.
No there not really the same. Neither really messes with the other to much but function based training will lead to proper form more often than proper form based training insures the ability to function. Function is the most important element of the two. Excellent form is actually the product of good function.
Look at how different martial arts train. Take boxing for example, which is a function based combative sport system. The same techniques, give or take, can be found in a number of other traditional based fighting methods, like long fist or karate. The main emphasis is on being able to apply the function, which are the techniques, often under duress.
In boxing there are no deep set forms or set in stone by route movements and the training emphasizes actual application in a contested enviroment. Because of this functionality in its training, where one has to always ask themselves if they can pull it off for real, its no big suprise that in a exchange of hands, boxers tend to get the upper hand vrs some other traditional fistic systems.
Your main goal in training should be to get yourself the attributes you need to be functional. That should be your main principle. Good form is a part of that toolbox to get there but its not the end in itself. Everyone here has seen the player that looks amazing on the heavybag, or really athletic in their forms and stance work, the guy who can blow throw energy drills like a pro, but when you put him in a sparring context, where do all these fancy techniques vanish?
[QUOTE=Royal Dragon;755670]Form is just how you look, a movement such as the intergrated dimensions of a stance or how your body presents itself to a viewer. Function is how you actually perform, by the success of a application of a move.
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Umm, arent form and function supposed to be the same? For a bow stance for instance, it’s used in throws and takedowns done with Diagonal cut. The bow stance is identical in the take down as it is used when practicing diagonal cut. There is no difference between form and function.[/QUOTE]
This may be the most incorrect post of the year.
How? The bow done in the Diagonal Cut is the same in the drill, as we used it in the throw. I really don’t see any difference at all, other than adjusting the hieght up or down to match various opponents.
And if IS different, you are doing something wrong…maybe that is why your throw does not work, or maybe you are doing your drill wrong…
Train like you fight and all that.
lol. It’s my best throw.
Then you should make sure your drill is like the way you actually use it. To do it different would be wrong.
You’re really sumthin else, Gian.
What am I saying that is so wrong?
Bro, you don’t understand any of the training. You just made up your mind that you think you know what’s going on. The form you’re talking about is for the entry step, the kuzushi. It’s a drill. The same shape can be used for different things, but you gotta focus on what you want. You don’t train the stance and then go fight like that.
Bro, you don’t understand any of the training.
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Ahh, my good Soaked, Draconian, Serpent, friend, I think I understand the training better than you do…after all I’m not the one that posted that pic of the crapiest horse stance to be found and sited it as an example of the correct!
>>You just made up your mind that you think you know what’s going on. The form you’re talking about is for the entry step, the kuzushi. It’s a drill.
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No kidding!!! However, it uses the Bow stance the same way as it is also held in static practice. Which is why I am siteing it as my example.
The same shape can be used for different things, but you gotta focus on what you want. You don’t train the stance and then go fight like that.
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But the stance IS used in a fight, exactly the way you hold it when you train it!! It’s just in training it is held a long time (train hard, fight easy and all that), and when in use it’s only a split second. Reguardless of how long you hold it, the posture is the same. How is it you cannot see that?
OK, I’ll play a lil more. So if you use a Front stance to attack Diagonal Cut (O Soto for the Judo crowd) You’re 30-40 % backweighted on the entry? Cause that’s how the stance is held. How can you drive the guy’s weight over his foot if you’re not commited to the throw?
Or were you speaking about the reap. If that’s the case, how do you prevent him from escaping the throw if you’re driving your back heel into the ground? How do you stop him from just sliding out of the throw?
Break it down for me Gian, tell me how to train this stuff. I’m listening. Tell me how to train Diagonal Cut. Not just stance, teach me the throw.
[QUOTE=Becca;755589]Sad, sad, sad. No wonder why you don’t realize the value of stance work.:([/QUOTE]
why is that sad? in judo and bjj, you will do no stance training. yet, in their takedowns and throws, you will see many of the stances cma guys train. stance training has its uses, but in the grand scheme of things, it’s unnecessary.
stance training has its uses, but in the grand scheme of things, it’s unnecessary.
That is basically what I stated, but its easier to fall under some illusions I guess.
Yes there are upper and lower rectus abdominus Muscles, also holding stance does isolate an area of the muscle known as the Z band. That is an area located at the tendinous junction with the muscle belly, also it strengthenes the Ligaments and the tendon bone connection. Thus causing greater contractile strength and stronger joints. Since stance work is a Closed chain activity it helps to work the agonist and antagonistic muscles together. So the joint is more stable and less prone to injury. SO STRONGER KICKS AND PUNCHES ETC. KC
PS stance training is very necessary if you want to be a well rounded MA. of any type.
[QUOTE=Royal Dragon;755714]
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Ahh, my good Soaked, Draconian, Serpent, friend, I think I understand the training better than you do…after all I’m not the one that posted that pic of the crapiest horse stance to be found and sited it as an example of the correct!
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Why is that horse crappy?
It breaks all the principles. The shoulders are pulled back, NOT rounded, the chest is puffed out, NOT Sunk, the back is arched, NOT straight, the posterior is stuck out, NOT tail bone tucked.
It basically not only violates every basic principal, but actually does them all wrong to the extreme.
An expert such as yourself, who knows everything, has studied Tai Chi, Shui Jiao as well as non Chinese arts Should know this stuff…it’s day one material, and you have been standing right next to me when MJ made those very corrections on both of us… :rolleyes:
Although these pics of me have thier flaws, they at least adhear to the basics principals.
1 Shoulders are rounded.
2 Chest is sunk
3 spine is stright, not arched back.
4 tail bone is tucked.
5 no joints are fully locked out.
Some schools seem a bit less picky on the tucking the tail bone issue, and prefer to focus on keeping the knee back to the toes, but I have yet to see one where you are Told to stick the posterior out like the pictures you posted.
For reference, I included the example you posted as the ipmideomy of the Correct.
also holding stance does isolate an area of the muscle known as the Z band. That is an area located at the tendinous junction with the muscle belly,
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How exactly does it do that? You would need to add an anchor point to bone between that, and the muscle belly to isolate the tension to that specific location. Unless you are talking about a muscle with multiple heads, what you are claiming is not posible from even an engineering standpoint.
Oh WD, and one more thing, it’s kind of hard to see because of the angle, but if you look close at your example, you can see how his legs are angled? His knees are pulled in towards his center a bit, indicateing he is useing a way too wide of a horse stance. That inward pressure is really bad on the knees(If you remember, one of MJ’s corrections more perticular to me, not you). Its way worse than letting them move in front of the toes.
Should I go on? I do have a few more critques as to why your example is totally wrong…
Really, posting that pic as an example of your knowledge and expertise, while demeaning mine in the same thread is worse than siteing me as an example for good grammer and spelling…and then demeaning an English teacher…