The response to the T bull---- thread

Wai Jia: The Kung Fu Forum Wing Chun
41

[QUOTE=LSWCTN1;951764]Kev Gledhill makes excellent posts about tan sau lop sau etc and their apparent redundancy in fighting. perhaps someone can link them?[/QUOTE]
There are clips showing him using tan sau lop sau against resisting opponents? Yes please link them, because I’m pretty sure he’s a theoretical, non-fighter who would never be able to post a clip of him actually mixing it up for real.

if you have such a bs radar, then why did you stay in wck for 4-5 years?

I trained it with Richard Bustillo, Hawkins Cheung and Dan Inosanto for 6-7 years. I stuck with it so long because I was a clueless kid who had no striking training beforehand and didn’t understand the difference between theoretical and real training. Like most of you guys, I wanted to believe it was the “secret” formula.

simultaneous blocks/strikes also mean different things to different people. in all your ‘real world’ or even sport environment experience, have you never thrown a strike that connected and also blocked their strike? is that not simultaneous blocks/strikes?

Lots of things happen accidentally, but that’s a big difference from being able to use them consciously on a planned level.

42

[QUOTE=CFT;951807]Can you share that info in another thread?

I agree. Makes me question all the multi-move hand trapping that I see in videos.[/QUOTE]

think about how you throw out your tan or your gaan or punch :smiley:

KG and Hendrik say the same thing almost - its all in the twist!

simple once its explained!

[QUOTE=Knifefighter;951808]There are clips showing him using tan sau lop sau against resisting opponents? Yes please link them, because I’m pretty sure he’s a theoretical, non-fighter who would never be able to post a clip of him actually mixing it up for real.

I trained it with Richard Bustillo, Hawkins Cheung and Dan Inosanto for 6-7 years. I stuck with it so long because I was a clueless kid who had no striking training beforehand and didn’t understand the difference between theoretical and real training. Like most of you guys, I wanted to believe it was the “secret” formula.

Lots of things happen accidentally, but that’s a big difference from being able to use them consciously on a planned level.[/QUOTE]

the whole point is that you train it so that it is ‘accidental’ in so much as not acting consciously on a planned level.

also if you trained bs wck under Hawkins Cheung, and he taught Robert Chu, and he taught Terence is Terence bs because he has a poor skillset, or are you for not making it work? :confused:

(incidentally i dont think HC is bs at all)

also, what do you think of Hubud and its combat application? (i have a little Petikri Tersia experience with a world no 1/2 stickfighter - not much mind you)

also the KG post is about using the action effectively with a fist attached

43

[QUOTE=LSWCTN1;951815]also, what do you think of Hubud and its combat application? (i have a little Petikri Tersia experience with a world no 1/2 stickfighter - not much mind you)[/QUOTE]
Same as I think about chi sao.

44

[QUOTE=LSWCTN1;951815]also if you trained bs wck under Hawkins Cheung, and he taught Robert Chu, and he taught Terence is Terence bs because he has a poor skillset, or are you for not making it work? :confused:[/QUOTE]
I don’t know. But if you want to know if you can make yours work, do what I did. Go out and fight boxers, kickboxers, and MMA fights. That will tell you everything you need to know about making it work for you.

45

“I don’t need to see his (Terence’s) vids because I know that what he says about training is right.” (Dale Franks/knifefighter)
…

**AND my whole thesis is that…Terence is simply regurgitating your words and those of people like Matt Thornton. My BS detector tells me that he’s about 80% talk - and about 20% actual skills. And until he posts some vids that provide evidence otherwise - that’s what he is, as far as I’m concerned.

Furthermore, I think this view of Terence is starting to become the consensus around here.

46

“The reason I need to see clips from you guys is that you are proposing things, that in my experience, rarely happen the the way you guys think they will happen. So, in this case, since I don’t have my own evidence that lends support to your views, I need to see SOME evidence from somewhere.” (Dale Franks/knifefighter)
…

***OKAY, now that’s Dale at his best. In his wing chun experience, certain things some people around here talk about rarely ever happened when he sparred, and he wants to see evidence that these things can actually work against a skilled, resisting opponent - and can work fairly often.

47

[QUOTE=Knifefighter;951808]There are clips showing him using tan sau lop sau against resisting opponents? Yes please link them, because I’m pretty sure he’s a theoretical, non-fighter who would never be able to post a clip of him actually mixing it up for real.

I trained it with Richard Bustillo, Hawkins Cheung and Dan Inosanto for 6-7 years. I stuck with it so long because I was a clueless kid who had no striking training beforehand and didn’t understand the difference between theoretical and real training. Like most of you guys, I wanted to believe it was the “secret” formula.

Lots of things happen accidentally, but that’s a big difference from being able to use them consciously on a planned level.[/QUOTE]

perhaps you were just alousy student and to lazy or incompetant to learn the martial art that was being raught to you people often use that excuse when they are a failure at something lol

48

[QUOTE=goju;951832]perhaps you were just alousy student and to lazy or incompetant to learn the martial art that was being raught to you people often use that excuse when they are a failure at something lol[/QUOTE]You like to write people off with no basis in fact.

The fact that KF is a BJJ BB means that he has aptitude and perseverence in MAs.

49

[QUOTE=Ultimatewingchun;951825]**AND my whole thesis is that…Terence is simply regurgitating your words and those of people like Matt Thornton. My BS detector tells me that he’s about 80% talk - and about 20% actual skills. And until he posts some vids that provide evidence otherwise - that’s what he is, as far as I’m concerned.[/QUOTE]
And that’s my view of 95% of what 95% of the theoretical non-fighters here post about.

50

[QUOTE=CFT;951841]You like to write people off with no basis in fact.

The fact that KF is a BJJ BB means that he has aptitude and perseverence in MAs.[/QUOTE]
a black belt just means you mastered the basics of your style its nothing impressive

51

[QUOTE=goju;951832]perhaps you were just alousy student and to lazy or incompetant to learn the martial art that was being raught to you people often use that excuse when they are a failure at something lol[/QUOTE]

Yeah, that was it. I was a lousy student and too lazy and incompetent to learn. But somehow I managed to become relatively proficient at boxing, MT, stickfighting, wrestling and BJJ. I wonder how that happened.

52

[QUOTE=Knifefighter;951850]Yeah, that was it. I was a lousy student and too lazy and incompetent to learn. But somehow I managed to become relatively proficient at boxing, MT, stickfighting, wrestling and BJJ. I wonder how that happened.[/QUOTE]
or so you claim^
hoonestly you response as to why you left wing chun its the same response every person who fails at something give
basically to sum it up you just said"it was stupid"lol
perhaps the problem is you not the art

53

[QUOTE=Knifefighter;951820]I don’t know. But if you want to know if you can make yours work, do what I did. Go out and fight boxers, kickboxers, and MMA fights. That will tell you everything you need to know about making it work for you.[/QUOTE]

This is the crux of the matter.

Go out and fight with proven, competent fighters and you’ll see. If you don’t do that, you’ll never develop good skill and you’ll never see. (Skill and understanding go hand-in-hand).

54

[QUOTE=Ultimatewingchun;951825]**AND my whole thesis is that…Terence is simply regurgitating your words and those of people like Matt Thornton. My BS detector tells me that he’s about 80% talk - and about 20% actual skills. And until he posts some vids that provide evidence otherwise - that’s what he is, as far as I’m concerned.

Furthermore, I think this view of Terence is starting to become the consensus around here.[/QUOTE]

I have cited Thornton since he is a proven fight trainer (not to mention a BJJ BB and ex-sparring partner to Lennox Lewis) whose gyms have produced world-class level fighters and his views on training are readily available on the net (so people can check out his views on their own). It’s funny that to you citing an actual proven expert is a bad thing. I have said that if we genuinely want good results in our training is it wise to listen to people LIKE him as opposed to listening to people like you.

FWIW, I don’t ask anyone to take my word for anything, nor to use me as an example or authority. I tell them to go see for themselves – to go visit good fighters and fight trainers. To use their criticial thinking skills. In other words, to do everything you don’t do.

My view is that WCK is a fighting method, and if we want to develop good WCK skills – which mean fighting skills – then we need to train like good fighters train (not how poor fighters train), and that entails LISTENING to what good proven fight trainers and good proven fighters have to say.

I know that this view isn’t popular, since it challenges people and their beliefs – and many of these beliefs are tighly intertwined into their ego-structure (I am a sifu, a master, I learned from the grand poo-bah himself, I have the real wing chun, etc.). Stepping outside of your comfort bubble and your little pond is scary, not just physically but psychologically. But REAL growth is painful, it’s not pleasant.

55

[QUOTE=goju;951857]or so you claim^
hoonestly you response as to why you left wing chun its the same response every person who fails at something give
basically to sum it up you just said"it was stupid"lol
perhaps the problem is you not the art[/QUOTE]

How long have you trained in WC? Who is your instructor?

56

one of my freinds father was awing chun master and i studied with him for a year before he moved back to china being in my state there arent any wig chun instructos i havent been able to further my training in the style
my style how ever is goju ryu karate whicj ive studied for the pst five years and i have also boxed since iwas six

57

[QUOTE=t_niehoff;951866]This is the crux of the matter.

Go out and fight with proven, competent fighters and you’ll see. If you don’t do that, you’ll never develop good skill and you’ll never see. (Skill and understanding go hand-in-hand).[/QUOTE]
i was at alocal mma gym for close to a year before i left and my tma techniques worked just fine against boxers and kickboxers many of them were very east to get kicking techniques on

58

[QUOTE=t_niehoff;951877]My view is that WCK is a fighting method, and if we want to develop good WCK skills – which mean fighting skills – then we need to train like good fighters train (not how poor fighters train), and that entails LISTENING to what good proven fight trainers and good proven fighters have to say. [/QUOTE]

you really dont listen

i dont think anyone here wants to train like a poor fighter

the question at hand is always whether we (everyone in this forum except you and dale) train well.

we claim we do. you think we dont because we disagree with you at times and you have it all figured out, and anyone who has it figured out like you will come to the same conclusions as you.

apparently you know more than even your heroes at the UFC, who use feints all the time–a move you frown upon

59

lol god he actuall frowned upon feints?
shakes head

ugh feints are used in mma particularly with lyoto machida watch his fight with tito again to sse

60

[QUOTE=goju;951849]a black belt just means you mastered the basics of your style its nothing impressive[/QUOTE]

sometimes a black belt doesnt even mean that. depends on where you get it from…now a black belt in bjj…thats pretty different. if you dont mind me asking dale, how long did it take you to earn your black belt in bjj?