What styles do they practice at this temple? Is it just like song shan but in he south or do they practice more southern martial arts? Is it like song shan in that they practice a mix of wushu and traditional or do they do only one? What goes on there? I have been dieing to know more about this temple since I first heard about it. I’ve been waiting for kungfu qigong to publish more articles on it but they are taking to long! Any info on this temple would be appreciated. I don’t want to here about how it was “cooked up by PRC” though cause wheither it exsisted before doesn’t matter to me, it exists now.
He, He, He
Best guess, it’s going to be Southern Wushu untill they figure out what real Southern Shaolin actually is.
I know there are some legit Southern Shaolin lineages out there(like South Louhan), maybe they will study them like they did with the northern temple’s Kung Fu
Some have said it is mostly southern wushu, however, I have heard that they also do some 5 animal traditional.
Does anybody no where I can get some info from people who have been there? It seems nobody’s really been there yet except the shaolin do article in Kungfu qigong. I am really interested in finding out more about the south temple.
Norther practitioner- What have you heard about the temple as far as the 5 animal goes? Do you know sombody who has been there?
Gene you guys have been slacking on this! Do you have any info on this thing? Are there going to be any articles coming up?
You talking about the one in Quanzhou? I have been to it. I am not entirely sure about what they practice there, but my late sigung made regular trips there to bring the art back to China. I was there as part of a group to help him coach the monks. Whether they only practice wushu or not, I am not sure but I am sure of one thing - they are good martial artists. They learn very quickly and are amazingly strong, flexible and agile.
I am not sure about my Chinese geography but I think it is in Fukein. Didn’t gene want you to write an article about that? Do it I would love to read about your whole experience there.
Yeah, my geography is really bad. I am not sure but I think Quanzhou is in Fukien province.
Gene did ask me to write that article, but it really isn’t that interesting. Just spent a few hours there showing the monks a few exercises and some sets. Makes me sound like I am really good huh? 
I am not - I just happened to be there (so were about 20 others) and my Sigung asked us to help teach.
I am happy to talk about it, but I don’t really think it is worth publishing.
We’re still working on that story…
We had two different authors who were planning to go - Shawn Liu and Benny Meng. But both had changes in their plans. Shawn was planning to go when there was talk of installing his master Suxi as abbot there, but that doesn’t look like it’s going to happne now. They still might go, but not soon. Unfortunately, there isn’t much around there (or so I hear) - it’s a little off the beaten path. But hopefully someone will go soon.
If any of you want to go and report back, please let me know!
Mr. Ching
There are other Wing Chun people out there besides Benny Meng and I am sure that there are plenty who are less controversial and more well respected. How about Rene Ritchie? His research is solid and unlike Benny he is willing to show his references and sources nor is he pushing a personal agenda. I believe he posts on the Wing Chun forum.
Less controversial Wing Chun?
Actually, Rene has been working on something for our eZine and if you look at our next issue (which should hit the stands in about two weeks) you’ll find 4 wing chun articles, not a one by Benny. Admitedly he writes a lot for us - he was just one of the people planning to visit the Southern Temple, so we we’re hoping he could bring back the story.
We ran one southern temple story back in Mar/Apr 2001, but we want more details. Sounds like we’re not the only ones…
I ran across this thread while browsing and couldn’t help but to reply. I’ve been to the Quanzhou area several times since I have in-law family there. While I’ve never been to the “temple” nor have I been to the major training halls, I did gain insight into Southern Shaolin culture speaking to several local martial artists.
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The location of the temple has not been determined. There are three locations currently billing themselves as the “source”, Qhuanzhou, Putian, and another spot between Putian and Fuzhou. Quanzhou and Putian each have a rebuilt temple.
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No official record exists supporting the authenticity of any of the sites. In contrast, the Hebei temple has both written record and archaelogical record supporting the claim that martial arts were practiced there. Little physical evidence exists–not enough to support that the ruins were actually a Shaolin monastary.
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A profit-oriented industry, both regional and international (Western nations and Southeast Asia), has grown up around Southern Shaolin and the temples. I had on more than one occasion have someone tell me their opinion that the temples never existed, but then said–when they found out I was contemplating an article–not to quote them or use their names for fear of being criticized by those promoting the temple. This regional marketing does affect the information that is presented to the public, especially the overseas ones.
I am not saying that a temple or temples never existed, but I am demonstrating that many things you hear about the Southern Temple does not reveal the true story. For example, there was an article not too long ago in this magazine about the Putian temple. The author took the assumptive viewpoint that the temple was the true one and mentioned nothing about the Shaolin Temple about an hour’s drive south in Quanzhou.
In the future I do hope to make my way to both sites to gain further clarification in this area, finding out more of the folk history and the actual curriculum at the training halls.
Keith
Keith
Nice post. Write us an article when you go. It’ll save me a trip.
On my trip to the one in Quanzhou, I also went to the ‘old’ one in Putian (Putian happened to be my Sigung’s home town). The ‘new’ temple was being rebuilt at the time.
Now I do not know anything about this temple, but the ‘old’ one looked very old, and there was a kung fu school there. All we did was watch a few demos, do a few of our own, then left.
Interesting part of the world anyway
Joedoe,
I am curious as to wu shu styles popular in that region (trying to get a cultural handle on things).
Which style does your sigung practice? Did he grow up in Putian and learn his art there?
I have the feeling from my discussion with the martial artists in Xiamen that the temple organizers, bolstered by the local schools, were reconstructing a curriculum by assimilating the local folk arts popular around the region south of the Min River. Some of the names I ran across were White Crane (created in Yongchun about an hour’s drive west of Quanzhou), Taizu Quan, Five Ancestor Fist (a newer style but builit around a mixture of five older systems), Dog Boxing, Lion Boxing, a Fujian version of Louhan Quan, Tiger, and a few others that I have to look up. Taizu is really popular in Quanzhou. Five Ancestor Fist was created in Quanzhou as well.
Keith
Just out of curiosity…
If I go to Greece, go to the Oracle at Delphi location, rebuild it, then go out and find people who can fill the parts of Greek Temple officials (priestesses and priests and such for the Greek Gods and that long dead religion), add some money into the mix…
Can I then say that the rebuilt Oracle is truly an operating temple for Apollo?
Ok…this example is like 2500 years as opposed to 250…but…things that make you go HMMMMMM…
GLW
Let’s think about the Olympics.
Originally, the Olympics were held in Olympia Valley in Greece, beginning in 776 BCE and competing every fours years for almost 1200 years. Our modern day Olympics were created by Baron Pierre de Coubertin in 1896.
Can we then say that the rebuilt Olympics is truly an Olympics?
GLW- It doesn’t make me go hmmm. You need to understand Chan Buddhism. As a religion Chan was never lost(it’s not really a religion in the western sense either) It doesn’t really matter where the “original” south temple was or if it even exsisted. It does now, if the people on this thread know what they are talking about we have two. Isn’t that somthing to be happy about? Shaolin is flourishing, the actual martial art practiced by the monks can be anything traditional contemporary it doesn’t matter. The shaolin martial arts are a vehicle for chan. Everything is impermanint so who cares about a building? If the shaolin monks opened a temple out of a musty old basement it would still be a shaolin temple if the teachings of chan buddhism were there.
When the Olympics were restarted, NO ONE tried to say that it was a continuation of the Olympics from ancient Greece.
What WAS said was that the Greeks had a thng called the Olympics wherein the city states sent their best athletes and for a shining moment in time, all wars suspended, politics stopped (in the ideal) and the city states came together as athletes and lover of physical prowess in competition and comradeship.
Then, the idea was put forth that this for the modern world was a really good thing and lead to understanding. So…let’s start it up again…tie it back to the ideals that were held in such highe esteem in Greece, pay respect to the Greeks since they fathered much of what is Western Civilization …and in honor of their ideals …call the games the Olympics…
At NO time was there any discussion about tying it all back to something that had been long dead except in concept and spirit.
That is NOT what is hapening with the modern Shaolin temple. Money enters into these things in a big way…and NO ONE ever really messes with anyone else’s rice bowl unless they are trying to take it from them…this is the long standing way of Chinese business.
Chan…how has the connection been made. This argument does not at all hold water.
The same folks who are talking about the growth of Chan with the temple are the same ones who later complain about the oppression of the PRC government in regards to religion. The view of religion encompasses ALL relgion…not just Christianity. The government gets involved here …simply because it is a cash cow. Milk it while you can.
Buy the dream if you wish…but know the difference. First folks try to say that traditional wushu in China is all but dead and that it has been replaced by what they consider to be a watered down thing called Wushu …then they want to believe that the traditional teachers all of a sudden appear at the temples because they were rebuilt for a movie…and archaeology…or tourism and historical purposes. It can’t be both ways. There is a major logical contradiction here.
That is what makes me go HMMMM…
If the shaolin monks opened a temple out of a musty old basement it would still be a shaolin temple if the teachings of chan buddhism were there
The Shaolin Monks aren’t opening the temple are they? It’s an athiest government trying to make some $$$. It’ll still be a decent wushu school, historical monument, and it probably could turn into a true monastary, I suppose, under the right circumstances.
kboggess said…
“Taizu is really popular in Quanzhou. Five Ancestor Fist was created in Quanzhou as well”
Reply]
I am currently researching the Tai Tzu/Chao Family Fist systems. I was wondering, do you know enough to help me out? Possibly help me make contact with english speaking Tai Tzu teachers in the area (Well any area really)?
I’m looking to set up a video exchange in the system where I could learn the style one step at a time. Advancement would come as I sent video copy back for evaluation.
A flight to the source would be in the back-ground when time money and the eventual learning of Chinese becaomes a reality.
Thanks,
Gian
aka Royal Dragon