the destruction of southern and northern shaolin

just the facts…

The article covers the dates, archeological missions, and recent discoveries. It also gives a grand overview on the new temple and what they are doing there. It was one of the strongest pieces to cross my desk in a while.

FWIW, the dominent belief in China about the origin of Nan Shaolin is alluded to in the article we published back in April 2003 by Master Shan Wei. The other article I’ve mentioned soon to be published, reaffirms this idea. There really was no southern shaolin temple, at least not like northern shaolin. There were northern monks that came down to defend the coast that stayed at many Fujian temples, and they left a legacy that became southern shaolin. But more on this when that article comes out.

I’ll be eager to hear your reactions to it.

Thanks Gene,

I will be looking forward to these issues. I will have to dig through my old copies to see if I have that other issue.

Just to vioce my opinions, I would like to see more articals related to historical views of martial arts rather than oral tradition. I notice that oral traditions are often contradictory to history and even other lineages, even that stem from the same source.

I do think there were “southern” temples and I think there were monks that practice martial arts at these temples. But how related were they to the northern temple? People seem to think there was an offical temple in the south linked to Shaolin. There may have been, but it seems the evidence is pretty slim. Though it is possible that shaolin monks did visit and stay at other temples. Though I don;t really know how recpetive temples are of visiting monks from different orders.

Another idea for articals may be to talk about China between the 1700’s through the 1900’s. Talk about the culture, norms, and political beleifs that formed the martial arts as we know them today.

Thanks for your time
Tom


Blonde latina

History

Thanks Gene,

When can we expect that Issue to reach Australia?

Oral History, did somebody mention oral history?

Ok, just to confuse matters. My oral history has always been a bit different to everybodys else…

Suppose we go back to the period of the alleged destruction of the Southern Shaolin temple.

It that era, to shave ones head and to become a Monk was a new lease on life. Soldiers without armies or patrons would often take up the life of a monk. People from all walks of life became monks. Some for true spiritual enlightenment, some for a respite or an alternative to their current lot, some to hide.

Suffice to say, that not all monks were the same, some were much more spiritually motivated than others. Politics and military physical culture were commonplace.

As we know, there were many temples, across Southern China, some more grand, some less grand. Some more pious, some less pious, as with the monks that inhabited them, the temples took on various characters.

The Ming Dynasty had fallen, the Ching had moved in. Many Chinese nationalists believed China “occupied” by a foreign power. There was revolution in the air, and nationalism in the hearts of the people.

One stronghold of this nationalism and revolution was a Temple in the south, one often called the Shaolin temple, but the name is less important than the spirit. This was a stronghold of revolutionary fighters, dedicated enemies to the Ching. A temple less known for its religion than its politics, however clothed.

The armies of the Ching could not overwhelm the temple, whether it be for political or military reasons, one can only speculate. But there was a stalemate.

However, by using cunning and subterfuge, they managed to create a conflict amongst the temples that ended in the eventual destruction of this particular temple, and perhaps the political influence of this community of temples in the South.

gene ching and the rest of cantonese brothers :

anybody can help me with the translation of my topic about the 18 wodden dummies of shaolin ?

oral and oz

tpkfo - Thanks for your suggestion. Unfortunately, for the most part, we are only left with oral tradition. A lot of martial arts is folk style based, so we are always in a game of Chinese whispers. Much of the written documentation hasn’t survived until today, and some of that which has survived is suspect. 1700’s to 1900’s is a rich period, but hard to document. I tell you, I’m still trying to unravel the CR, and that was only 30 years ago! But your comments are well said and I share you desire for that kind of material.

yc - I have no idea on what delays you might experience in Oz. Internationla distribution is wacky. Generally speaking, what is the delay to newsstand?

gt - which are you talking about?

gene ching :

i 've post a tread in this forum about the cantonese translations of the 18 shaolin wodden dummies .
this thread have zero respònses . and for that reason i am caling for help .