nothing better for learning how to deal with Muay Thai technique, than to bring in an experienced Muay Thai fighter. This can be a huge asset to your school.
[QUOTE=SavvySavage;1118591]We do just not as much as a Thai school. I know two people that train Thai and the bulk of what they do is hit pads.
My WC school has a lot of sticky hand drills, 18ish hung gar forms(I think), technique drilling, stance training,etc. There’s a lot to learn in the so called traditional training schedule.
We don’t hit bags and pads every class though.[/QUOTE]
Dont think many train cardio and pads as much as the Thai tbh 
Still think it should be done in every class though. Personally I spend around 1/3 on this and the rest on more “technic oriented” drills, but to each their own I guess
In my experience of teaching someone with time under their belt, whether it be a chunner from another school or another art altogether, is that there will be about 3-6 months of “this is how we do it” statements. While most find that as an example of not being humble it’s an excellent opportunity to teach. In fact, even if they are humble, you can ask them how they usually do it to spark the teaching.
By showing them the differences in body mechanics between the two I find that they pick up the concepts and principles a lot quicker than say a newbie. Comparison is always a good thing in teaching conversation as long as ego doesn’t get involved.
In WC, we don’t trade hits.
As I understand MT, they trade and just look to make the trade as much in their favor as possible (i.e. take a jab for a good leg kick)
He’ll probably miss the conditioning of MT, I know I do.
[QUOTE=Eric_H;1118681]In WC, we don’t trade hits.
As I understand MT, they trade and just look to make the trade as much in their favor as possible (i.e. take a jab for a good leg kick)
He’ll probably miss the conditioning of MT, I know I do.[/QUOTE]
That is the flat out truth. There is something to be said for that linear, head banger style, but if you can add a little more finesse to it. It can be pretty sweet.
[QUOTE=SavvySavage;1118540]Do you guys find it hard to teach people with experience in hard hitting sport arts? I taught a guy once who had been studying Thai boxing since he was a kid. At his school they spar twice a week. At my school we spar sporadically.
I admit that I was a bit intimidated by his experience. He was very humble and always wanted to study Chinese martial arts. I find that complete newbs are wowed by tcma but experienced students get bored quick.
How could teaching si lum Tao, stances, and gate theory compare with classes where you hit daily and spar constantly? Like I said so far he is humble but I just don’t believe that tcma training compares, in terms of being fun and engaging, with other sport arts.
What’s a good way of teaching beginners who aren’t beginners? The military does this by breaking you down and building you up. Some martial arts teachers have that attitude but I don’t agree that you have to intimidate people to get them to learn.[/QUOTE]
Hi Savvy
Im like your student but in reverse, ive left WC ( i still dabble) after many years to take up MT, so i guess i may have a an angle on this?? 
MT is about hitting pads… a lot. Its physically hard, repetitive and demanding if you really want to get somewhere at it. You should see what our fighters go through as a build up to a fight.
So maybe he’s a bit over that?
If he’s done it since he was a kid (how old is he?) maybe he feels that he has explored MT as far as he wishes to, and is looking at something a bit more “subtle” (couldnt think of another word)
And WC is a logical progression from MT, both striking arts with a liking for close in work, dare i say clinch
And as the other poster siad, let him amongst your senior students and see how everyone fairs… it is fighting after all
GlennR
[QUOTE=Eric_H;1118681]In WC, we don’t trade hits.
As I understand MT, they trade and just look to make the trade as much in their favor as possible (i.e. take a jab for a good leg kick)
He’ll probably miss the conditioning of MT, I know I do.[/QUOTE]
I’ll take you up on that Eric, the MT i do doesnt do that but, as you say, maybe some camps do
And yes, the conditioning is fantastsic… why dont WC schools do the same do you think?
By showing them the differences in body mechanics between the two I find that they pick up the concepts and principles a lot quicker than say a newbie. Comparison is always a good thing in teaching conversation as long as ego doesn’t get involved.
Good comment, anyone with a good understanding of body mechanics from a different style should pick up on the new principles pretty quick
[QUOTE=GlennR;1118690]
And as the other poster said…[/QUOTE]
Sure, sure, let’s all forget to cite the guy with the unpronounceable name properly!
I see how you people are. Bet if I changed my name to Cthulhu, you people couldn’t say it enough, proper spelling and all.
I see how the wing chun forum is.
[QUOTE=Taixuquan99;1118694]Sure, sure, let’s all forget to cite the guy with the unpronounceable name properly!
I see how you people are. Bet if I changed my name to Cthulhu, you people couldn’t say it enough, proper spelling and all.
I see how the wing chun forum is.:D[/QUOTE]
Not too sure what you are on about here??
[QUOTE=GlennR;1118692]I’ll take you up on that Eric, the MT i do doesnt do that but, as you say, maybe some camps do
And yes, the conditioning is fantastsic… why dont WC schools do the same do you think?[/QUOTE]
I guess it varies between schools/families and their approach. In my family we train a good deal of conditioning based on the idea that while it’s not our aim to be hit, we still shouldn’t expect to not get hit in a fight and should rather know how to continue fighting after being hit rather than letting the hit stop or stun us.
[QUOTE=EternalSpring;1118698]I guess it varies between schools/families and their approach. In my family we train a good deal of conditioning based on the idea that while it’s not our aim to be hit, we still shouldn’t expect to not get hit in a fight and should rather know how to continue fighting after being hit rather than letting the hit stop or stun us.[/QUOTE]
Ok, got you Eric. Yep we are the same, i thought you meant taking a shot to get a favourable position, my mistake.
Do you mix the MT much with your WC?
Or are you pure WC these days?
[QUOTE=GlennR;1118700]Ok, got you Eric. Yep we are the same, i thought you meant taking a shot to get a favourable position, my mistake.
Do you mix the MT much with your WC?
Or are you pure WC these days?[/QUOTE]
Oh, actually, I’m not the guy were you talking to before (eric?), I just jumped into the conversation lol.
But to answer the cross training related question, while I’m not part of any other schools I do try to train at least once a week with a close friend who is a boxer and another who is a MT guy (and a TKDer too but we dont train together as much). With my kung fu bros we often train a lot of low roundhouse kicks on the kicking shield (in appearance it’s kinda like a bong gerk turned into a low roundhouse) and I did get a good deal of insight on the kick from my friend who trains Muay thai, same with his use of elbows and clinching. It wasn’t exactly something completely new to me but it opened up my understanding on things I had been training before and thus helped me improve those techniques.
[QUOTE=GlennR;1118692]I’ll take you up on that Eric, the MT i do doesnt do that but, as you say, maybe some camps do
And yes, the conditioning is fantastsic… why dont WC schools do the same do you think?[/QUOTE]
Many dont seem to train WC as a fighting art I guess.
Or maybe they are deluding themselves that you dont need to do conditioning training if you want to be a good fighter.
Not sure that its delusion. I trained MT for years and loved it but the conditioning is in two forms. Conditioning the shins isn’t far different from the hand conditioning WC students do on the wall bag remember in MT the shin is a primary striking area as well as a bone on bone blocking surface. The general body conditioning is altogether different and is a product of MT being a sport. As a sport participants have to perform for a set period (ie number of rounds) and fights last a relatively long time due to the gloves worn and the conditioning of the fighters. If your WC has no sporting connotation then general body conditioning is not really needed as most street fights will be over in a relatively short period. Additionally MT does not have to worry about weapons of any kind and hence condition to be able to take blows to the abdomen without having to lower the hands away from protecting the head / striking, for street focused arts this is a high risk strategy and generally avoided. Conditioning to a high level takes time (lots of it) and dedication, in non sports aimed arts this time is arguably better spent doing other things. Only my opinion.
[QUOTE=wingchunIan;1118790]Not sure that its delusion. I trained MT for years and loved it but the conditioning is in two forms. Conditioning the shins isn’t far different from the hand conditioning WC students do on the wall bag remember in MT the shin is a primary striking area as well as a bone on bone blocking surface. The general body conditioning is altogether different and is a product of MT being a sport. As a sport participants have to perform for a set period (ie number of rounds) and fights last a relatively long time due to the gloves worn and the conditioning of the fighters. If your WC has no sporting connotation then general body conditioning is not really needed as most street fights will be over in a relatively short period. Additionally MT does not have to worry about weapons of any kind and hence condition to be able to take blows to the abdomen without having to lower the hands away from protecting the head / striking, for street focused arts this is a high risk strategy and generally avoided. Conditioning to a high level takes time (lots of it) and dedication, in non sports aimed arts this time is arguably better spent doing other things. Only my opinion.[/QUOTE]
Let me put it this way. In high stress situations, like when your life is at risk you only perform at around 40% of the bodys max performance.
So if your not in great shape, good luck
[QUOTE=jesper;1118800]Let me put it this way. In high stress situations, like when your life is at risk you only perform at around 40% of the bodys max performance.
So if your not in great shape, good luck[/QUOTE]
I think that there are some inherent problems with that theory especially if someone has had experience in a situation. I have been in about 20 street confrontations. The last one, my pulse barely raised.
[QUOTE=jesper;1118800]Let me put it this way. In high stress situations, like when your life is at risk you only perform at around 40% of the bodys max performance.
So if your not in great shape, good luck[/QUOTE]
If I had to guess, what Ian is getting at, isn’t that conditioning isn’t important. If you aren’t fighting competitively, three hours of conditioning per day is too much. Go and enjoy your life. Finish college, get a promotion at work, and so on…
[QUOTE=HumbleWCGuy;1118810]I think that there are some inherent problems with that theory especially if someone has had experience in a situation. I have been in about 20 street confrontations. The last one, my pulse barely raised.[/QUOTE]
Its actually well tested, and used by many professional armies to better teach soldiers survival skills.
If you want to be efficient in combat its very important to know how stress influence your body.
In general you can divide stress up in different sub levels
WHITE: this is your normal stress level when your asleep, relaxing etc
YELLOW: now your being allert, but your heartrate wont be noticable hightent. Fx most predators, like dogs etc are constantly in condition yellow since your able to respond at a moments notice.
RED: this is the stress level where you will perform at your peak. your pulse will be raised as well as your vision and hearing. You will also be able to perform at max intensity, but you will feel a tingle in your fingers because blood will start to withdraw from your extremeties. If you have ever been in a car accident fx or suddenly got spooked you will know this feeling.
Now if for whatever reason you havent been trained to handle your stress influence and keep it at level Yellow or red, you will enter next fase.
GRAY: Now you will loose control of your complex motorskills. Another thing that will happen is that you will start to move your arm in syncronised pattern. Fx you will raise both arms at same time etc. This will also happen if you get caught by suprise, now 4 things will happen within 150ms. you will blink, your head and body will move forward, you will bend your elbows and make fists.
Last fase is condition BLACK: now you will loose periphial vision, you will start making irrational actions because you will not recieve enough blood to your heart and brain, and you will not be able to formulate a clear thought pattern. Other then that your body will also “skip a step” and send impulses directly to your middle and lower brain, thus skipping the rational part. that is what is known as fight or flight pattern, where you have no control.
Now in general what happens is that with higher stress levels, you get higher puls ratings. thats the bad part
The good part is that you can learn to control most of your stress via two things.
Conditioning and perception.
Conditioning helps the body to better cope with higher puls rating
With perception is meant that known factors will give you lesser stress influence then unknown. so fx you will be more stressed the first time you do any physical act, then the second or third etc. So if you train a given scenario you will progressively be less stressed each time.
So back to your example. you have fought alot, and thereby conditioned your body and mind via perception to cope with that. Now put in an unknown factor like say he pulls a gun/knife on your and boom your in unknown territory and your stress factor will rise.
Sorry for the wall of text but this was as short a description I could make 
[QUOTE=HumbleWCGuy;1118810]I think that there are some inherent problems with that theory especially if someone has had experience in a situation. I have been in about 20 street confrontations. The last one, my pulse barely raised.[/QUOTE]
Fair call, ive known some fat out of shape killing machines over the years. But, as a guy in his 40’s, im glad ive done the hard yards of conditioning as its prolonging my ability to mix it with the younger stronger guys. Not to mention the day to day benefits of just being fitter.
I guess it depends on what you want out of it