TCMA Approach

Wai Jia: The Kung Fu Forum Kung Fu Forum
1

Bawang’s Profound Insight:

For real - Bawang said something that really should be taken to heart if you intend on being a martial artist - I’m paraphrasing, but… “You can’t be a Master of TCMA, instead you’re a slave to TCMA. In 30 years you’ll still be working at KFC”.

I like this statement because it sheds a lot of light on how one should choose a martial art.

If you’re going to obsess, and if you’re intending to be some kind’ve uber master, then do NOT do TCMA. You’re wasting your time because there is nothing to be gained. If that is your intention, do a sport combat art like Jiu Jitsu, Boxing, Kick Boxing, or Judo. Why? Because you can verify proficiency through action and people won’t dispute it. But still, unless you’re top dawg at something - you’ll probably have to make your living doing something else.

TCMA is cerebral, but it has to be part of your life, it can’t be your life. No matter how good you think you are, there is no way to prove it and someone will always dispute your claim. And even if you’re very good - eventually you have to sell out and become something you don’t want to be if you want to make a living… unless you make your living outside of your art.

In my opinion - then there is nothing wrong with LARPing in MA if that’s an outlet and not your life. So what if someone thinks standing makes them invincible? I may think it’s silly, but that’s what they like to do when they’re not working. Now if standing for invincibility is their entire life… whoa - drop the delusion ese.

2

The whole “MA teacher as a fulltime job thing” is a development of the 20th century.
Sure Samurai were taught by professional teachers, but those teachers were also samurai first and teachers second.
In TCMA most teachers were teachers of their MA second and whatever profession they had first, be it body guard, doctor, lawyer, soldier, butcher, bakers, candle stick maker.

When TMA became a commercial enteprise the why’s and how’s of TMA changed.

3

[QUOTE=MightyB;1086899]Bawang’s Profound Insight:

For real - Bawang said something that really should be taken to heart if you intend on being a martial artist - I’m paraphrasing, but… “You can’t be a Master of TCMA, instead you’re a slave to TCMA. In 30 years you’ll still be working at KFC”.

I like this statement because it sheds a lot of light on how one should choose a martial art.

If you’re going to obsess, and if you’re intending to be some kind’ve uber master, then do NOT do TCMA. You’re wasting your time because there is nothing to be gained. If that is your intention, do a sport combat art like Jiu Jitsu, Boxing, Kick Boxing, or Judo. Why? Because you can verify proficiency through action and people won’t dispute it. But still, unless you’re top dawg at something - you’ll probably have to make your living doing something else.

TCMA is cerebral, but it has to be part of your life, it can’t be your life. No matter how good you think you are, there is no way to prove it and someone will always dispute your claim. And even if you’re very good - eventually you have to sell out and become something you don’t want to be if you want to make a living… unless you make your living outside of your art.

In my opinion - then there is nothing wrong with LARPing in MA if that’s an outlet and not your life. So what if someone thinks standing makes them invincible? I may think it’s silly, but that’s what they like to do when they’re not working. Now if standing for invincibility is their entire life… whoa - drop the delusion ese.[/QUOTE]

There is some truths in what your saying, but I disagree and want to point out a few things:

  1. Many martial artists put way too much stock in what others think. Pressure test what you know, spar, roll with the best people you can find and improve upon your weaknesses, that is all you need to do. Also, stop worrying about someone disputing you. The ones who usually try to dispute are the tools who suck themselves and try to bring others down to make themselves feel better, most high level players I have trained with do not care about bringing someone down, but learning and bettering themselves. If you do this, the fruits of your labor will be much better.

  2. Kung Fu guys compete in San Shou and Shuai Jiao, as well as different kickboxing rulesets (American, Internation, Muay Thai) and some even do MMA!:eek::smiley: Seriously man, the pressure test BS for all Kung Fu is old. Form fairies and LARPers are what they are, good fighters from Kung Fu styles are what they are. This is not just Kung Fu, this is all styles of martial arts.

  3. I agree with you that performance arts or those not suited for combat that are more for exercise are good so long as the person practicing these knows this. The idiot who does nothing but forms for 20 years and still thinks he can fight is deluded, sad, and is a nothing and nobody on the grand scale of what Kung Fu is and what it encompasses.

As far as being a slave to TCMA, one can be a slave to anything if you let it turn you into something you are not. Do what makes you happy, train how you wish, and worry about what you want out of Kung Fu. If you do this you will not be a slave to anything, and also you won’t be a slave to every douchebag in the world that says your art sucks.:rolleyes: Feed the dragon so that is will prosper and grow!!:slight_smile:

4

I always try to write something profound to “enlighten” the TCMAers but there is no use. Its like a cult, they have their own world view. As do sport fighters.

If the two should ever meet in combat though, the one who is better conditioned and most experienced with real, uncontrolled violence will win.

5

People know when they’re training is worthless. They tend to be very vocal putting other styles down and are always talking about past exploits.

One of the reasons I enjoy MMA so much is that there is very little talking. One of the most light hearted gyms I’ve ever trained at is Renzo’s in NY. The man is always smiles and usually busting chops in a friendly way… he doesn’t need to explain himself. He’s done it for real in front of the world. Other black belts are actively fighting. No need to talk. When you put yourself on the line like that, you can loose, you can get beat in front of your coaches, training partners, friends, family, strangers, haters… you get a certain humility.

Compare that with Kung Fu masters, some internal folks that used to post aggressively here: They are nothing but talk.

Fighters talk about fighting in different ways than non fighters. Just like you can tell real surfers from wannabees. And its usually the dumbest person in the room trying hard to sound smart.

6

[QUOTE=Iron_Eagle_76;1086910]There is some truths in what your saying, but I disagree and want to point out a few things:

  1. Many martial artists put way too much stock in what others think. Pressure test what you know, spar, roll with the best people you can find and improve upon your weaknesses, that is all you need to do. Also, stop worrying about someone disputing you. The ones who usually try to dispute are the tools who suck themselves and try to bring others down to make themselves feel better, most high level players I have trained with do not care about bringing someone down, but learning and bettering themselves. If you do this, the fruits of your labor will be much better.

  2. Kung Fu guys compete in San Shou and Shuai Jiao, as well as different kickboxing rulesets (American, Internation, Muay Thai) and some even do MMA!:eek::smiley: Seriously man, the pressure test BS for all Kung Fu is old. Form fairies and LARPers are what they are, good fighters from Kung Fu styles are what they are. This is not just Kung Fu, this is all styles of martial arts.

  3. I agree with you that performance arts or those not suited for combat that are more for exercise are good so long as the person practicing these knows this. The idiot who does nothing but forms for 20 years and still thinks he can fight is deluded, sad, and is a nothing and nobody on the grand scale of what Kung Fu is and what it encompasses.

As far as being a slave to TCMA, one can be a slave to anything if you let it turn you into something you are not. Do what makes you happy, train how you wish, and worry about what you want out of Kung Fu. If you do this you will not be a slave to anything, and also you won’t be a slave to every douchebag in the world that says your art sucks.:rolleyes: Feed the dragon so that is will prosper and grow!!:)[/QUOTE]
QFT
PM me your real name, so when I print this up and include it in our school’s workbook, I can give credit where credit is due.

7

[QUOTE=MightyB;1086899]Bawang’s Profound Insight:

For real - Bawang said something that really should be taken to heart if you intend on being a martial artist - I’m paraphrasing, but… “You can’t be a Master of TCMA, instead you’re a slave to TCMA. In 30 years you’ll still be working at KFC”.

I like this statement because it sheds a lot of light on how one should choose a martial art.

If you’re going to obsess, and if you’re intending to be some kind’ve uber master, then do NOT do TCMA. You’re wasting your time because there is nothing to be gained. If that is your intention, do a sport combat art like Jiu Jitsu, Boxing, Kick Boxing, or Judo. Why? Because you can verify proficiency through action and people won’t dispute it. But still, unless you’re top dawg at something - you’ll probably have to make your living doing something else.[/QUOTE]

If you want to master TCMA, you have to become a slave to it. And you will never make any real money at it.

You won’t have time for a career. And the general public is not interested in buying your real TCMA.

You’ll end up frustrated and disappointed because you can’t even give away your TCMA for free.

8

TCMA should be honest with itself first, and should from now on refer to itself as “Combat Yoga”;

acknowledging this inherent conflict will put a lot of things to rest;

think about it…

9

I’ll even do you one better.While MA was a really positive force in my life during my early 20s (pulling me away from bad influences) at some point it became a distraction that kept me from advancing in my career and other aspects of my life.

Only when I divorced myself from MA to some degree did I progress in my career and make progress. I never wanted to be a professional MA teacher but there’s a progression in modern MA that advances toward that, requiring a larger and larger time investment. In my old school I wasted a lot of time doing things like helping out with Lion Dance.

I like doing martial arts, I like it as part of my life but we don’t live in feudal China and I’m not worried about my village being raided. The way that you really “win” in our modern society is not to beat the crap out of people physically but through the improvement of your mind and your economic situation.

I’m not saying people shouldn’t practice martial arts. But keep it in perspective…not everyone is going to be a teacher or professional MMA fighter. Most of us are just looking for a way to stay trim and healthy and be able to defend ourselves from some drunk a$$hole at the bar. :stuck_out_tongue:

EO

10

[QUOTE=taai gihk yahn;1087456]TCMA should be honest with itself first, …[/QUOTE]
When you tell a

  • boxer that boxing is lacking throw, that boxer will agree with you.
  • Judoka that Judo is lacking strike, that Judoka will agree with you.

When you tell a TCMA guy that his style doesn’t have this and that, he will argue you to death.

Why?

11

people with problems try to fill a void in their life and bring their problems to kung fu

the movies promise a wise sage, a father figure, the kung fu teachers sell that dream but cant deliver.

12

[QUOTE=Iron_Eagle_76;1086910]Spar, roll with the best people you can find and improve upon your weaknesses.[/QUOTE]

That’s it right there.

Everybody wants to train what they are already good at. No one wants to face their own weaknesses.

If people put half as much effort into actually becoming competent as they did in the appearance of competence. . .

Improvement in martial arts is nothing more than a progression of getting your ass kicked by people who are better than you. Sometimes you kick your own ass.

[QUOTE=Ray Pina;1087445]People know when they’re training is worthless. They tend to be very vocal putting other styles down and are always talking about past exploits.

One of the reasons I enjoy MMA so much is that there is very little talking. One of the most light hearted gyms I’ve ever trained at is Renzo’s in NY. The man is always smiles and usually busting chops in a friendly way… he doesn’t need to explain himself. He’s done it for real in front of the world. Other black belts are actively fighting. No need to talk. When you put yourself on the line like that, you can loose, you can get beat in front of your coaches, training partners, friends, family, strangers, haters… you get a certain humility.

Compare that with Kung Fu masters, some internal folks that used to post aggressively here: They are nothing but talk.

Fighters talk about fighting in different ways than non fighters. Just like you can tell real surfers from wannabees. And its usually the dumbest person in the room trying hard to sound smart.[/QUOTE]

A worthy though unoriginal notion; like a shirt ironing itself.

13

[QUOTE=Ray Pina;1087445] you get a certain humility.

[/QUOTE]

like frank shamrock?

14

[QUOTE=YouKnowWho;1087464]When you tell a

  • boxer that boxing is lacking throw, that boxer will agree with you.
  • Judoka that Judo is lacking strike, that Judoka will agree with you.

When you tell a TCMA guy that his style doesn’t have this and that, he will argue you to death.

Why?[/QUOTE]

Culture. Plain and simple. You tell us. This “one man island” theme seems to be very Chinese. Obviously a blanket statement, I know. I know Ross’s teacher wasn’t like that, but it seems to be very prevalent in TCMA in general.

15

[QUOTE=-N-;1087453]If you want to master TCMA, you have to become a slave to it. And you will never make any real money at it.

You won’t have time for a career. And the general public is not interested in buying your real TCMA.

You’ll end up frustrated and disappointed because you can’t even give away your TCMA for free.[/QUOTE]

Yep, that about sums it up. That’s because we’re not trying to protect our village from raiding marauders.

EO

16

[QUOTE=bawang;1087466]people with problems try to fill a void in their life and bring their problems to kung fu

the movies promise a wise sage, a father figure, the kung fu teachers sell that dream but cant deliver.[/QUOTE]

bawang = Adam Hsu ???!!??

17

[QUOTE=bawang;1087471]like frank shamrock?[/QUOTE]

More like Brock Lesnar.

18

Maybe less computer, more training:rolleyes:

19

[QUOTE=Wildwoo;1087504]Maybe less computer, more training:rolleyes:[/QUOTE]

maybe less pedantic, more shut-upeted?

20

[QUOTE=Wildwoo;1087504]Maybe less computer, more training:rolleyes:[/QUOTE]

Maybe missing point of internet forum?