Is TCM used like qigong or meditation to help develop virtues or balance out emotions? if so how? Thanks in advance!
Yes…
but only as far as an imbalance of the emotions having clinical significance. All five emotions are obviously related to their specific organ and thus an imbalance of that emotion is a clinical significance of a symptom to illness, so yes but sometimes a little indirectly more as a secondary issue. That said treating emotional imbalance can obviously be a primary issue too.
“but only as far as an imbalance of the emotions having clinical significance. All five emotions are obviously related to their specific organ and thus an imbalance of that emotion…”
Should we find some evidence for this,an actual,falsifiable correlation other than ancient writings,this could make sense.
Hmmm
Foundations of chinese medicine and The practise of chinese medicine both by Giovanni Maciocia
Maoshing Ni’s translation and commentaries of The Yellow Emperors Medicine Classic
Manual of Acupuncture by Peter Deadman
Any articles on E.J.O.M.
the list goes on, and I’m not gonna really stretch myself here to cater for you Former Castleva as that would be a waste of my time. Past experience dictates that a degree of mental flexibility in ones approach is not your forte.
Still I’d like to think that just some of the above could interest you, maybe,maybe not!
"the list goes on, and I’m not gonna really stretch myself here to cater for you Former Castleva as that would be a waste of my time. Past experience dictates that a degree of mental flexibility in ones approach is not your forte.
"
Well,thanks for providing me with those.Considering where they seem to come from,I do not think there is much more to convince me.Of course,a simple example would have done.
While I´m not entirely sure what the case of mental flexibility is,I´ll be quick to point out that there is little room for superstition.
To appear polite,I´ll provide one with a random site (to start with) about the correlates of organs and emotions,and so on..;
http://faculty.washington.edu/chudler/lobe.html
Hmmm
There you go again! superstition and TCM for you seem to be inextricably interwoven.
I cannot abide the weak minded when they make themselves rigid and shoot themselves in the foot by blindly beleiving that Western medicine is the way forward and is the be all and end all.
Thats fine Former, I’ll leave to that cul-de-sac mentality, but for the others who are hughely entrenched I do hope they manage to pull their way out of it, and accept that western medicine and in fact western science does NOT hold the monopoly on actuality.
Originally posted by Former castleva
[B]"the list goes on, and I’m not gonna really stretch myself here to cater for you Former Castleva as that would be a waste of my time. Past experience dictates that a degree of mental flexibility in ones approach is not your forte.
"
Well,thanks for providing me with those.Considering where they seem to come from,I do not think there is much more to convince me.Of course,a simple example would have done.
While I´m not entirely sure what the case of mental flexibility is,I´ll be quick to point out that there is little room for superstition.
To appear polite,I´ll provide one with a random site (to start with) about the correlates of organs and emotions,and so on..;
http://faculty.washington.edu/chudler/lobe.html [/B]
hmmm.
To take that deeper and to bring it back to the qi, also for anyone else interested (like it needs western science for conformation!?!)- and Being that you have noteable interest in nuero - science, you should be familiar with nano - technology and specifically remnant resonant energy (qi) which we all posess and has a direct correlation to both emotional and physical health and well being. if not please explore quorumglobal.com
If you need more, I have recently recieved further documentation on dhea, a precursor, or source ingredient, to virtually every hormone your body needs which when an increase of 10mg / lt occurs within blood levels, according to the New England Journal of Medicine (december 11, 1986), causes a 35% reduction in motality rates by acting as a buffer against stress related hormones such as cortisol. please see www.meditate.com.au
hope this helps
p.s. should you not find the pearl after several divings - do not blame the ocean
emotions and elements.
Nervousness effects the kidney…making you need to pee before a fight.
Hmmm
Fear to be exact but thats only because in TCM the Kidneys control the lower two orifices and thats why in a fearful situation one can empty their trousers as an involuntary action.
This doctor has been very successful with this method of removing emotional blockages from patients:
"There you go again! superstition and TCM for you seem to be inextricably interwoven.
I cannot abide the weak minded when they make themselves rigid and shoot themselves in the foot by blindly beleiving that Western medicine is the way forward and is the be all and end all.
Thats fine Former, I’ll leave to that cul-de-sac mentality, but for the others who are hughely entrenched I do hope they manage to pull their way out of it, and accept that western medicine and in fact western science does NOT hold the monopoly on actuality."
I wonder whether the “argument to geography” of “western” science will ever leave us.
I guess I will not be getting any data on your alleged relations concerning the pathology of,say,colon and “spirit”?
It still requires a decent leap of faith to eat this up.
5 elements and regulation of emotion
Hi I’m new to this forum, so I’m coming in late on this topic.
I actually wrote a paper last month on using 5 elements to regulate emotion. You can see what you think…
<a href=“http://chinesetherapeutics.org/elementmusic.html”>
5 elements, emotion and music</a>
Originally posted by Former castleva
It still requires a decent leap of faith to eat this up.
It takes a leap of faith to believe in western medicine as well.
A belief in a scientific reality is just that. You choose to believe the beginning assumptions and subsequent conclusions which form your paradigm. You do this based on empirical evidence and logic. It’s all good.
But ultimately, it is just a belief.
And convincing someone not willing to believe is very difficult. No description of brain regions and pictures of the same will convince someone of your truthfullness. You’re the exact same, but on the other side of the divide.
Gödel’s Incompleteness Theorem is proof enough inside Western science for me. All systems of science are ultimately lacking. No system can completely depict all the truths in existance.
Also, that you can conceive of a system to describe the workings of something, does not mean you cannot conceive another, different system to do the exact same. All this leaves room for other systems, other depictions, to be possibly true.
Of course, words will usually fail to create belief. I suggest you get personal experience of TCM to validate your disbelief. In fact, I suggest I get personal experience, too. I’ve no clue personally if it (acupuncture and such, I do qigong though) works, but the same could be said for my experiences with western medicine. It seems to work for a lot of people, though. So does TCM.
I keep an open mind.
"It takes a leap of faith to believe in western medicine as well.
A belief in a scientific reality is just that. You choose to believe the beginning assumptions and subsequent conclusions which form your paradigm. You do this based on empirical evidence and logic. It’s all good.
But ultimately, it is just a belief. "
Sure,after you have demonstrated that.It is funny that you actually mix “empirical evidence and logic” with “belief”.
“And convincing someone not willing to believe is very difficult. No description of brain regions and pictures of the same will convince someone of your truthfullness. You’re the exact same, but on the other side of the divide.”
False analogy,it sounds.
Let´s put it simply.
I´m not out to convince anyone of MY truthfullness.Ultimately,the decision is one´s own.The material is there for you to look,feel free to challenge it (turn over the whole of modern neuroscience,you will not be forgotten).This thread was,originally,about emotions,and I´m offering my insight.I did also ask about TCM´s approach to this,and whether it holds water.I received no direct answer/evidence for it´s favour.
Now,here´s a random site on tcm/emotions;
http://www.healthy.net/asp/templates/article.asp?PageType=article&ID=1278#The Emotions and Mental Disease
It is said;
"Traditional Chinese medicine considers that the emotions are governed by individual organs. "
“In China there is less ‘mental disease’ as we know it in the West, because the neurotic is considered to have a disease of the liver or spleen,”
"Each organ is given a particular emotion; for instance, the liver is said to be the organ affected by anger. "
Or as Repulsive Monkey put it;
“but only as far as an imbalance of the emotions having clinical significance. All five emotions are obviously related to their specific organ..”
I consider these quotes important in our case.
I´d encourage you (the general “you” included) to tell how this wisdom applies.Please,whether you answer or not,do try avoid telling me how “close-minded”,“weak-minded” etc. I am for not accepting these explanations by faith.
“Also, that you can conceive of a system to describe the workings of something, does not mean you cannot conceive another, different system to do the exact same. All this leaves room for other systems, other depictions, to be possibly true.”
What kind of a system do we need then? I think it is very easy to resort to ad hoc explanations in cases as this.
Additionally,you would have to demonstrate that there actually is something there that cannot be explained with the current system/needs another system (this also carries the danger of ad hoc).
Originally posted by Former castleva
Sure,after you have demonstrated that.It is funny that you actually mix “empirical evidence and logic” with “belief”.
I’m glad it’s funny. Please, elaborate.
Take into account that you actually have to first believe that empirical evidence is worth anything. For a long time people didn’t believe in it. The same goes for logic.
I mean it sure seems obvious, but many of the things we take for granted aren’t. It’s cultural conditioning
Originally posted by Former castleva
I´m not out to convince anyone of MY truthfullness.Ultimately,the decision is one´s own.The material is there for you to look,feel free to challenge it (turn over the whole of modern neuroscience,you will not be forgotten).This thread was,originally,about emotions,and I´m offering my insight.I did also ask about TCM´s approach to this,and whether it holds water.I received no direct answer/evidence for it´s favour.
Very well. I admit you didn’t insist people should accept your truth. However, your exposition did imply a sort of … truthfullness beyond that of the opposite view. No insult meant here!
Originally posted by Former castleva
I´d encourage you (the general “you” included) to tell how this wisdom applies.Please,whether you answer or not,do try avoid telling me how “close-minded”,“weak-minded” etc. I am for not accepting these explanations by faith.
As for me, I didn’t directly mean to say you’re any of the above, but I’ll admit that the implication might have been there. Just what I “accused” you of doing. 
Originally posted by Former castleva
What kind of a system do we need then?
Lots of systems. Evolving systems. That’s what I like about science. It is that. But it is not gospel (hey, there I go again mixing science with belief …)
“I’m glad it’s funny. Please, elaborate.”
Well,when you have the former as your guide,the latter loses value.
“Very well. I admit you didn’t insist people should accept your truth. However, your exposition did imply a sort of … truthfullness beyond that of the opposite view. No insult meant here!”
He,he.I guess one could see it that way then (not offended).
What I´m revealing is just factual information.
"As for me, I didn’t directly mean to say you’re any of the above, but I’ll admit that the implication might have been there. Just what I “accused” you of doing. "
I was not referring to you all that much.
“Lots of systems. Evolving systems. That’s what I like about science. It is that. But it is not gospel (hey, there I go again mixing science with belief …)”
Evolution is a universal law (applies to science).
Originally posted by Former castleva
Well,when you have the former as your guide,the latter loses value.
The latter (empirical evidence and logic) needs the former (belief) to even exist. Beyond that, often to explore new territory, you have to believe something is out there in the first place.
And although the method of proof is different, the scientist choosing to accept the results of his experiments believes in them in the same way another person might accept natural events to be the will of God.
Also, in the modern world and the “softer sciences”, where there are lots of theories lying around and even contradictory research results, there remains a vast area of knowledge within the reach of these leaps of faith.
Perhaps there are areas of knowledge that will never fall under a working and proven theory. Indeed, this seems almost likely. Yet, is it impossible for individuals to gain enough information to believe something factual to be true, without gaining enough information to drag this new knowledge into the realm of western science?
While I recognize that you may not accept the veracity of TCM, I’ll use it as an example (actually concentrating more on meridians). How has the information of this field been originally created? I’ve read stories that the paths of meridians have been revealed to people meditating and it has went from there. Sounds strange, certainly. It was also interesting to note that this knowledge seems by implication widespread since the finding of the “ice man” from the Alps. Significant is also the following: the whole theory of TCM has eluded western scientists (lack of truth or lack of evidence, who knows), the recent study of the paths of radioactive isotopes in the human body seemed to conform perfectly to the meridian system. So, there seems to be something there.
“And although the method of proof is different, the scientist choosing to accept the results of his experiments believes in them in the same way another person might accept natural events to be the will of God.”
Choosing to accept? Whether chosen or not,the results talk for themselves.I find your analogy disturbing.An idea that there even is a God behind any natural event is not a scientific one (-non-falsifiable).
“Perhaps there are areas of knowledge that will never fall under a working and proven theory. Indeed, this seems almost likely. Yet, is it impossible for individuals to gain enough information to believe something factual to be true, without gaining enough information to drag this new knowledge into the realm of western science?”
The problem with a lot of “belief medicine” is the lack of a theoretical foundation,thus the name.
“While I recognize that you may not accept the veracity of TCM, I’ll use it as an example (actually concentrating more on meridians). How has the information of this field been originally created? I’ve read stories that the paths of meridians have been revealed to people meditating and it has went from there. Sounds strange, certainly. It was also interesting to note that this knowledge seems by implication widespread since the finding of the “ice man” from the Alps. Significant is also the following: the whole theory of TCM has eluded western scientists (lack of truth or lack of evidence, who knows), the recent study of the paths of radioactive isotopes in the human body seemed to conform perfectly to the meridian system. So, there seems to be something there.”
I have roughly enough of reason to think that,for long,a lot has been “made up” (you may check out numerous sites that I have offered).One has to understand that such concepts predate the most rudimentary understanding of physiology or anatomy.
As far as the ice man (Ötzi) goes,it appears that certain points may have been marked,cannot say (the man also used coal for medicine).I think you need to be careful when it comes to saying how much this/it has interested anyone (without giving the references) but I agree that there has been some study.
From this article;
http://www.acsh.org/publications/priorities/1102/acu.html (to be read?)
“The concepts of chi, meridians, and acupoints do not correspond to any anatomic entity or known physiologic process. Because chi is not reasonably definable in nonmystical terms, determining whether acupuncture affects it is impossible. In only one biomedical study¬a French study characterized by the injection of a radioactive tracer at an acupuncture point¬did researchers conclude that meridians existed; a follow-up study revealed that the tracer had drained as it traveled ordinary blood vessels. As for acupuncture points, different charts depict different numbers and different locations, and devices marketed as means of locating acupoints have turned out unreliable.”
For balance,see this thread;
http://ezine.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=23439
This thread was,originally,about emotions,and I?m offering my insight.I
did also ask about TCM?s approach to this,and whether it holds water.I
received no direct answer/evidence for it?s favour.
Hey there still waiting for a critique, if you are so inclined, on my paper on “5 elements, emotion and music”. This is one approach based on TCM theory, specifically making use of the 5 element control cycle to regulate emotion. You can judge based on your intuition and emotional experiences if this theory has any potential usefulness.