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Wai Jia: The Kung Fu Forum Northern Praying Mantis
41

LOL

Man, I cant remember when Ive laughed this much. Thank you Hua Lin for a comical day reading your posts. You are more brainwashed than I thought. Im surprised, because I know your not happy with your situation. Through personal e-mails and pms Ive tried to be supportive of your (dilemma) which isnt a dilemma at all. Because you choose to stay in this miserable situation.

At this point, I really don`t care if you ever learn what we do. Stay in the dark! Continue on this path… and let us know what you know after 40 years… just another southern form. And does MC teach you anything out of your form? Does he spend time doing applications or two-person exercises out of your forms? NO

If Wah Lum is so great. The next thing to do, if you dont mind sir, is to cross hands. I will gladly give up some of my training time with my Shrfu, and drive over to you. Im shocked that I even waste my time with all this. I`m always up for a fight! Book it!

Let me know

42

my god, i havent even looked at this forum in over a year… same bs… get over it… re-read mamantis post above!!!

43

Okay, though my thoughts may not matter, I feel the need to interject.

A friendly exchange of blows may be what we all need in the way of resolving this matter. Should it actually take place? That’s the up to both parties, and it is NOT a matter of losing face. And obviously, should it actually ever happen, none of us will ever hear of the results, so don’t bother asking..

If two people wanna throw blows on this forum OR in real life, it’s their choice. The rest of us should just stay out of it. And hey, if you don’t like what you read, go to another page, to put it bluntly.

I apologise if I have stepped on any toes..

Amitabha,
Luohan Fury

44

Sa mantis

just defending myself from your WAHLUM STUDENTS COMMENTS.
so pm him your comments and get off my back.
wah:mad: wah:mad: wah:mad: wah:mad: lum

45

Some Pong Lai’ers on this board have chosen to set themselves against any and all things “Wah Lum,” for reasons they have discussed above and elsewhere, ad nauseum. They regularly shout down any Wah Lum student or sifu who tries to post on this forum. Is it any wonder that WL’ers rarely post on the board anymore?

Yep, that’s exactly why I never started posting on this board.
There seems to be a few disgruntled ex-WL’ers on this forum who have a lot to say about how their current training is so much superior to their former training for a variety of reasons.
Personally, my current WL experience meets all my current martial arts needs so I take no notice of their comments.

I’ve also felt no need to give my two cents on their “no techniques are taught” comments because I have been taught plenty of techniques, as well as trained with other students on applying those techniques in class. I am taught in a way that is different from their claims and accusations, so I’ve never felt a need to comment one way or another.

46

If anything, we have brought our friend flem out of retirement. Welcome back!

The Wah Lum Shrfu in Kissimmee Fla. is a friend, I just want the best for him. But there comes a time when you need not talk, but test your art. There is nothing wrong with two Shrfu`s getting together and crossing hands in a friendly manner. Hua Lin Laoshi is a good guy, it will be a learning experience for the both of us.

flem, how in the heck can you and I get together?

47

Originally posted by yu shan

Yea, WL does put alot of emphasis on leg strength. I found out just how valuable all this leg training got me when I discovered it doesn`t help you much when fighting an experienced Mantis fighter. (my Shrfu) Yup, leg strength right out the window, cause I had my ars handed to me.

Actually, didn’t you find that leg training didn’t help you when crossing hands with your Shrfu. Do you normally expect to be able to hang with a master of a style?

Just had to call you out on that, but on to a real question:

Have you found that your Pong Lai training has made you any more effective when sparring against an experienced Mantis fighter? What about a fighter outside of your style? Or against a martial artist outside of the CMA’s?

48

The internet is a tough place to prove anything through text. I think people should arrange a time and place to have a sparring match to really settle things and then come back here and post about how the fight went and how it ended.

That’s what traditional CMArtists did back then in ancient times. They talked bout this and that style then went ahead and sparred each other. That’s pretty traditional. The by-product of Kung Fu is to be able to fight. It’s the core and primary reason that it was created. So to honor the ancient masters and your current master is to have the ability to fight with your style. I wouldn’t mind crossing hands with anyone here. I’m just gonna suggest full sparring gear (gloves like those used in UFC with the free fingers to grab, headgear with cage mask, body padding, knee/shin pads, and groin protection(cup) cause I want to be able to drive home in one piece after. :stuck_out_tongue:

49

Well I guess we degraded this forum enough so I’m going to bow out once again. Thanks for reminding me SaMantis. Here are my parting comments:

I don’t believe I’ve ever said anything negative regarding Pong Lai training, apps, credentials, etc. My issue is not about ‘my style can beat up your style’ but rather the continued bashing of WL for doing things that are consistant with other schools, styles, ways of teaching and Masters. Why WL is singled out has more to do with the personal issues of those doing the bashing.

Now you guys know you are always welcome to stop by my place at any time (as long as you don’t disrupt class). If not I’ll swing by again if I’m in the area. The offer goes to anyone on this forum. I’ve even invited Merry Prankster to come out when he’s in town so we could discuss grappling vs kung fu. I could certainly use the practice and since I haven’t seen Pong Lai in action yet I think it would be interesting.

As far as Pong Lai vs Wah Lum you guys seem to skirt around actualling making a challenge. When all this started a year ago I relayed MC’s opinion on the matter although I chose much nicer words. I believe I said all challenges to Wah Lum would be handled by the Temple. What I was told to say was if you think Wah Lum can’t fight then come to the Temple and find out. You guys know what the open pea**** feathers mean. I know John went to see MC previously and it didn’t go well. I give him credit for attempting to resolve things but since that route failed there seems to be only 2 ways left to deal with it. Challenge Wah Lum or let it go and move on.

Now if you have an issue with a particular WL Sifu, whether it’s me or someone in your area, I suggest you take it to them personally and try to work something out.

Also, I have posted that I learned some apps. Others in and out of WL have posted that they learned apps. Ex-students of your old WL Sifu (AD) said that he taught apps. You might not have been satifisfied with your training but don’t say you didn’t learn any.

mantiskilla
I guess I did take you too literally. I broke the cardinal rule about fighting (arguing/debating) while angry. Too easy to make mistakes and I did make mistakes.

On a technical issue:
"the ling side was developed to preserve the appropriate counter to the bung side "
First off I’m not knocking 2 man sets or ling forms. I can definitely see the value there but …
What’s appropriate in fighting? And why are you concerned with fighting your KF brother? I would think a good ling side would consist of ‘the other guy’s’ moves. Your techniques were developed to fight against other styles. I don’t believe they should be applied against your own style although I admit it helps to know the counters just in case. Still, the focus should be on fighting others, not your own. But as you can see I generally have a different opinion from the ‘experts’.

18elders
Technically you got me (been a long time since my 1st test and I haven’t tested anyone yet) and I can just hear the WL lurkers wondering if I’ve completely cracked up. Note my comment to mantiskilla. My view on 1st Exercise (8 Chain Punch) is that it’s just an introductory coordination exercise. They all have applications that could be attributed to them including the i-bay, bow, elbow to toe, pow choy etc. but for the most part they are entry level exercises. Holding it up as an example of WL fighting techniques is in poor taste. I use it to teach coordination, direction changing, and it’s the first introduction to making contact with an opponent (although the ‘opponent’ is just sticking out an arm). I don’t start 2 man drills until 2nd Exercise.

Oh, and your comment on leg strength. yu shan seems to think it’s useless while you give a good example of the power of John’s leg strength. Guess it’s just WL leg strength that’s bad while PL leg strength is good. Proven by the fact that a 5 year student of WL couldn’t budge a PL Sifu with 9 years of training. Guess we all say stupid things now and then.

isol8d
Yep, I remember the post where yu shan was thankful for the WL leg training. yu shan is ok if you catch him on a good day.

50

has it occurred to any of you that perhaps pong lai’s leg strength is a result of his early training in wah lum!!!

51

Originally posted by yu shan
…
But there comes a time when you need not talk, but test your art.
…

By “test your art”, do you mean test “Pong Lai”, or do you mean test “Wah Lum”? Judging from your posts, and your Sifu’s credentials, you don’t need to test “Pong Lai”. I don’t believe you feel the need to test Pong Lai’s effectiveness. I, for one, don’t doubt Pong Lai’s effectiveness.

Maybe you mean “test your art” of Wah Lum? According to your posts, you studied Wah Lum for over 10 years. After 10 years of studying Wah Lum, I think you have a pretty good idea of what Wah Lum has to offer. Good or bad. Why would YOU need to test it? I could understand someone who hasn’t studied Wah Lum wanting to test it, but not someone who has studied it for over 10 years.

Maybe you mean Hua Lin Laoshi should test “Wah Lum”. What if he doesn’t feel the NEED to test “Wah Lum”? Maybe he has already tested it, and you weren’t around to witness it?

Based on Hua Lin Laoshi’s posts, he is satisfied with what “Wah Lum” has to offer, even if, at times, he hasn’t been “happy” with his situation. It hasn’t been soo bad for him that he would speak bad about “Wah Lum” or their training, on this thread (maybe he has in previous posts, on other threads?).

You on the other hand, moved on from training at Wah Lum after spending over 10 years there, and started training at Pong Lai, and it is meeting your needs. You, Yu Shan, are satisfied with what “Pong Lai” has to offer, and “Hua Lin Laoshi” is satisfied with what “Wah Lum” has to offer.

Yu Shan, if you represent “Pong Lai”, consult with your Sifu about fighting with the Sifu of another MA School. Even if you DON’T represent “Pong Lai”, consult with your Sifu, anyway before fighting with the Sifu of another MA School.

Maybe you already have… (a whole lotta "maybe"s in my post, huh?)

52

Here comes my 2 cents.

I have not trained in Pong Lai but after my time with Wah Lum I did train with a Vietnamese Man who did show me the light. He taught me Tai Mantis sets and Vietnamese Martial arts that he learned in Vietnam and he learned these the hard way. He kicked my @ss, showed applications in Kung Fu and Taiji. And, he didn’t hold anything back, play games.

I’m not training martial arts any longer, just qi gong but if I were going to pick a school between WL and PL I wouldn’t give a second thought. It would be PL.

I think this thread serves a purpose other than conparing the two schools. It gives others interested in Mantis information on choosing a school.

I would say that WL is a good Forms and Weapons school. Good to build a foundation. I would stay away from seminars and if you really wanted to train WL then I would say train to 8th level and then haul @ss.

53

Mantisben,
My understanding of Yushan’s statement about testing the art is somewhat different from yours.

I take it to mean that there comes a time when you should fight another skilled man and see if your years of training enables you to win fights.

So the question is,
-How should I train in order to be invincible(the ideal, don’t take me literally).
-Is this method of training going to make me an invincible fighter?

54

hau lin

Hua lin, i don’t think you need to bow out, it is not like we are two strangers who don’t know each other. We have talked in person and i think it is fine here, if sa or others aren’t happy they don’t have to read it.

Flem-he said it is not from his early days, the mantis stances are different than WL and it is from that and proper technique, not from holding stances for long periods.