The forms are definately not to smooth and dont have any value to combat.
:eek: hmmmmm… i let that one slide…
I popped my shoulder COMPLETELY out of socket a month ago… Its still recovering, Gonna have to get surgery cause the muscles in back of my shoulder are torn, they are soft and squishy like bruised fruit now. Even when I flex… and when I flex it just really really hurts. 
TKD forms - Crap. very rigid… Stupid blocks… TKD suxors. Better by nothin, but not by much.
Albeit, everyone Ive seen come to SD from TKD is very flexible, myself included.
Gotta go with bodhitree on that one too… I hated doing forms in TKD, and when I got to SD, 1st form I learned I loved… (took a 15th white crane seminar my 2nd week)
TKD training methods of doing many repetitions of kicks in the air and focussing on the “snap” sound that the uniform makes, encourages hyper-extension of the limbs. It develops your kicking ability fast, but IMO it will cause problems in the long run. I hurt my knee this way in TKD after 1.5 years and had to stop. Nowadays I would prefer to train those kicks slowly, or on a bag.
then again what really qualifies as a complete system?
I’m surprised not one person jumped on this..
I trained taekwondo for 5+ years without any injury to knees, etc. And we did lots of kicking in the air. I’m not suggesting that’s a particularly useful training method. But it didn’t do me any physical harm either. Nor do I personally know any taekwondoka who had this problem. Accidents are accidents. But I don’t think that’s an inherent problem in the training method.
Stuart B.
Originally posted by Ging Mo Fighter
i got in a fight with a bigger “kickboxer” style guy a few years ago, used my taekwondo, kicked him in the ribs as hard as i could, nothing happened. then i tried to move in (or something) and got caught in a front gillotene choke hold, luckily managed to make him let go (pulling his hair or something) and yeah, ran like hell
If you failed to crack his rib, you have bee taught very bad version of TKD/Karate. Essential part of Karate/TKD fighting strategy is its ability to disable opponent by breaking him. That is why destruction is the integral part of Karate/TKD training. Plus, if you train in full contact sparing, you will incur lot of injury.
Here is a example of Shotokan sparing.
http://www.24fightingchickens.com/shotokan/japan/8/page06.html
Yeeeeup… TKD sucks see
O.K…It sucks.
Originally posted by Liokault
[B]
Properganda is a dangerouse thing. [/B]
Not really..it wasn’t only the media but I have met some people who have met others in it ( lol yeah the old friend of a friend sotry but I beleive him) and he mentioned that it dwelved more deeply into other areas of martial arts.
Oh and by the way you missed that fact that I said “supposedly” instead that it was the origin of modern Korean arts.
It is no exaggeration to say that all the modern Korean martial arts derived from Japanese martial arts. The fact is that Korean did not have strong martial culture like Japan where military class ruled the country nearly 800 years or China where banditry and warlordism were common and unique martial arts institution, Shaolin temple preserved and research the arts for centuries.
There is no shame in this. Korea surpased Japan in other aspects such as painting and ceramic. And I suspect that they were superior in study of Classics. Korean were more advance than Japan in term of civilization in ancient period and that is a fact.
On the other hand, Japan did overtake Korea somewhere in 18th century. After all, Japan is the only non-Western country to join imperialist conquest. There is no secret that Korean looked, studied and copied many things from Japan for it’s development model after their liberation. Anyway, Japan did exactly the same with the West when they realised how behind they are. Also brutal experience of Japanese occapation and Korean War caused Korean to reshaped their identity in more militaristic manner just as Jew did in Israel after the Holocaust.
Now, when someone tried to reclaim it’s martial tradition by studying the arts from someone else who is the exact group to have brutalised you, you are going to get very complex view on how they see such martial tradition.
Most know TKD being 2000 years old is a bull, right? Also, Hwaran myth is a modern invention. During the Korean war,South Korean government ordered historian to find something which inspire youth. So they found obscure reference of this institution and promoted something which is somewhat akin but superior to Japanese Bushido.
There are so much creative editing goes on in Korean history let alone martial arts. As I explained, there are quite understandable reason for this but there is no point for Westerneres to get into this.
I should mention one more thing. Just because something is derived from something does not mean it’s inferior.
However, as far as TKD are concerend, commercialism and sportification has destroyed much of what used to be an effective martial arts
Hwarangdo nice art , had some really good people in it, borderline cult.
The very first Shaolin form I ever learned is harder to perform and more sophisticated than the Black Belt forms in TKD.
Which black belt forms? So harder forms equals better fighting art?
The forms are definately not to smooth
Which forms and which kwan? Beginners tend to be choppy, by brown belt things should be starting to smooth out and flow more. If not you aren’t getting it.
and dont have any value to combat.
And this is based upon your years of study of the bunkai of which other arts?
Stupid blocks
Could be, explain how to properly block and where each kwan of TKD fails.
i got in a fight with a bigger “kickboxer” style guy a few years ago, used my taekwondo, kicked him in the ribs as hard as i could, nothing happened.
Where to begin? Cracked ribs are a pretty common occurance in most striking arts. Well those that actually make an attempt to hit each other.
I love it when people go to a McDojang, buy their belts, somehow become experts in all forms of TKD and then go on about how it sucks because they didn’t learn anything. Please, if it all sucks ask Herb Perez or Hee Il Cho to kick you in the head.
Is TKD a serious sport, a martial art, an after school activity? The TKD world is a mess, and the mess is made by many of those in TKD. But it’s not alone and in better shape than most other arts out there. If you doubt me read some of the other forums right here.
Hey Tigerjaw.
you train in Oxford!..Fancy doing a San shou fight?
Aaah, feels like old times
It’s been so long since I heard any TKD bashing on this forum. I thought you guys had finally put it to rest. Anyway, in a strange twisted way, it’s kind of refreshing to reminisce on old times. By the way, I am a former 1st Dan practitioner of ITF TKD. There were things about it that I agreed with and some things that I didn’t. But isn’t that with all arts? Kung Fu just happens to suit me better. However, even after a year and a half of diligent training in Hung Gar, I still know of a few TKD stylists who I still would not want to fight. They just happened to be people who practiced seriously as a martial art and not a sport. They are out there. Be careful of underestimating. Fight the person, not the style.
I’ve been studying TKD/ITF for years I like it we train hard in all areas,including realistic self defense.Ill say that it may be simpler than kung fu but basics is what i would use in a fight anyhow.I worked in bars when going to school got into a couple good scraps and myTKD worked just fine,ended one with an elbow to the face.Anyhow I seen kung fu schools that never spar or spar once in awhile and have spared,touch hands with kung fu guys, guess what they try to spar like TKD and very bad IMO.So if you people who have trained in TKD and recived blackbelts and can’t make it work for you HOW in the world are you going to make a comprehensive system of kung fu work?
Originally posted by Liokault
[B]Hey Tigerjaw.
you train in Oxford!..Fancy doing a San shou fight? [/B]
Yup, train and live in the city of the dreaming spires.
San shou fight eh? Presumably this is some kind of full contact tournament type rules. No thanks, I’m only a yellow belt and don’t fancy getting my unskilled arse kicked arround the place.
Where do you train San Shou?
Tigerjaw
Where do you train San Shou
I dont train in san shou…I train in Tai Chi and fight in san shou.
(on the cowley road)
Are you one of ‘Tai Chi’ Dave Baker’s students? i knew a guy who trained there, Mark McGrath.
Are you one of ‘Tai Chi’ Dave Baker’s students? i knew a guy who trained there, Mark McGrath.
Yup im one of his students…Is that Irish Mark?..used to work in the elm tree?
Originally posted by Vapour
[B]
If you failed to crack his rib, you have bee taught very bad version of TKD/Karate. Essential part of Karate/TKD fighting strategy is its ability to disable opponent by breaking him. That is why destruction is the integral part of Karate/TKD training. Plus, if you train in full contact sparing, you will incur lot of injury.
Here is a example of Shotokan sparing.
http://www.24fightingchickens.com/shotokan/japan/8/page06.html [/B]
We did lots of sparing and power training, but I think your’e missing the point…
you can have excellent technique, and powerful kicks, but in a street fight, that first kick might not always break the rib, expecially if the guy is much bigger and stronger (its not akin to gouging out the eyes, or attacking the throat) so often you are left in a vulnerable position if that attack fails
note taekwondo also lacks the continuous attack strategy of kungfu, less flow (no, combination kicks dont count)