Why does it seem so many are putting down taekwondo? Or is it just my…
This can often be seen at forums.I even remember a topic named “Is taekwondo any good?”.
That was a different site though,but that´s about that.
I´ve got the idea that it somehow is not practical (which is not my own idea though)
So is it the case of olympic or traditional? Or is that completely a sidenote? Is it the high kicks? Or maybe something else?
It would be fancy if you would not say it is “watered down”,but rather something else,anything is appreciated though.
This may be because we have lots of very good TKD teachers in Oxford.
One of my class mates and my main sparring partner is a TKD 2nd dan. He trained in a very hard club with a very good teacher from the age of 12 and now is very good and very very fast.
His kicks and straight punches and quite amazing and really hard to deal with.
He is also doing very well in san shou against kung fu guys and kick boxers.
I am not sure of the type of TKD in oxford (i think it may be olympic) but their seams to be a great deal of full contact sparring going on.
I feel the disregard for TKD on this forum may be due to the target audiance in the USA for TKD being childeren and people with to much money.
Also on a total tangent I heard of a fight involving a very good TKD teacher here in Oxford (Orello Ellis)
It apears that 4 guys took a dislikeing to him so went round to his house with a base ball bat.
One guy swung the bat at Mr Ellis whice he blocked…breaking his arm…but he then went on to beat the 4 guys to a pulp with out the use of his arm.
I obviously was not there at the time but Oxford is a small town and I know lots of students of Mr Ellis.
I had a bad experience with taekwon do. I took it for about a year when I was about 11 years old. I didn’t learn much that would help me in a real life situation, aside from getting me in better physical shape. The stuff I learned there was all for tournaments (ie: “this is an effective technique because it’s worth 2 points”).
This was just my experience with that particular school, but if that’s common among taekwon do schools I can understand it’s reputation.
Trains for the tournament,NOT the street. i have NEVER seen someone with TKD training excel at anything other than good tournamnet point skills. TKD is VERY americanized and sportified as is alot of other martial arts out there (ie: judo, karate etc.) go to MCdojo.com and download the Muy Thai against TKD fight. you will see what i am talking about.
Many Respects,The Willow Sword www.mcdojo.com
Thanks for your noble replies.
I think I´ve heard something similar to that americanized TKD directed towards children etc.
Nice to hear though that it had worked for that one teacher.
I´ve also wondered occasionally why it is so easy to gain a “high” level in TKD.Couple of years for a black belt,yep,I´ve heard the same.
Of course one should understand that precious 1.dan is not the end,it´s more like a sign of that you have the basics down.
There is a sad story about a TKD man with 7th.dan in his art.
One ugly day he got into a situation with a couple of average thugs,at least another them had a broken bottle…
TKD expert was killed:( .I think this event took place in USA.
This does not naturally prove that the art would be bad.As previously recognized,could give bad reputation though.
TWS, it’s no more americanized than CMA is nowadays. You just have yet to meet someone who could use their TKD training for the street…I have. Funny thing is, he trained olympic style. He’s an example of what can be acheived with dedication and hard work. And sport judo will dump you on your ass just as fast as shuai chiao will.
“TKD expert was killed .I think this event took place in USA.
This does not naturally prove that the art would be bad.As previously recognized,could give bad reputation though.”
this happens all the time, to people of all styles. I agree, it definitely takes credibility away from the martial arts. It should also serve as an eye opener though. make people realize that something needs to be corrected…
Here in the US it exemplifies “McDojo”, the most commercial of all franchise dojos. If you pay the $ you get a “temporary” blackbelt right off. As far as the “art”, it emphasizes high kicking with max points given for a headshot. with these high kicks they come up on their toes, hence being called “ballerinas”, no power in this type of technique. I don’t think anyone would dis-agree that a high kick on the street would be a mistake. And after that roundhouse kick why do they think we don’t know it will be followed by a reverse roundhouse ? Lame stuff.
I agree, the high kicking can be a mistake in a fight, but that depends on the artist. you have to remember that a high level olymic tkd guy most likey has speed, agility and timing that is far beyond yours. also, he’s used to counter fighting, so he knows how and when to throw his techniques.
it’s no different than high level internalists that insist on using pressure points and chin na. If you have the skill and timing to make it work for you, then go for it. If not, stick to what you know you can make work.
i dont doubt the effectiveness of tae kwon do in its original and traditional format (hwarang) but lets face it. TKD trains for the tournament. the moment that leg goes up any higher than the waist he is either going to get grappled and taken down OR as you have no doubt seen the video truewrestler posted. CMA has been americanized as well and i agree with you on that. i just feel that if you are interested in training for personal self defense you take something that is serious, if you are interested in going to tournaments and winning trophies and such(nothing wrong with that) dont be suprised when you utilize your tournament skills on a FIGHTER you dont get the results you wanted.
its all hollywood until it gets real sevenstar.
I have respect for any MA, and anyone who trains hard to achieve their particular goals… no matter what style or where it came from.
Sure TKD has many competitions which have rules and things… but they are good at what they do. In a real fight sometimes u win, sometimes u lose. It doesn’t matter if you’re Bruce Lee, trained in ‘real self defence’, traditional kung fu, MMA or whatever - if someone sneeks up and hits u with a bottle from behind it’s generally lights out
Many systems who have some form of full and/or semi contact training/competitions have rules for safety and other things. It allows people to test their skill and develop it. As well as have a good time. So what’s the big deal? They are good at what they do, people enjoy training and it develops health. Also things like distance, timing, awarness etc. which helps in a real situation. Doesn’t guarantee anything, but something is better than nothing. What would happen if a boxer clinched with a muay thai guy… obvious - differernt rules and limitations. What if the boxer was against a grappler… again different limitations. The boxer may get taken down, or he may hit the guy on the chin and it’s lights out. So it’s win some lose some, no matter what you train.
Of course my wing chun is much different to TKD and i have my own thoughts on what is better for ‘real life’ etc. but so what? i respect them for their skill in what they do
a fight HAS NO RULES. you bog yuourself down in rules and ettiquette eventually it is going to cross over into the life/death situation and guess who is going to win? the guy who doesnt give a sh!t whether or not you die.
Black jack: not to down the term “americanized” but it seems that when you look at training regimens in other countries you find a more uninhibited way of training, not all of the time but most of the time. from what previous teachers i have had the opportunity to talk to who HAVE trained abroad they find that the seriousness and level which they train far exceeds ours.. we are a country of glitz and glam and if we break a nail or get a paper cut we squeal like babies. with the exception of some MMA schools that i have looked at and from what i have viewed on UFC fights most schools you run into these days focus more on the
glam, and the image.
Willow Sword: thanks for that I am actually aware of what happens in a real fight, and do know that the person who doesn’t give a fu(k is the one that usually wins… especially if he studies modern self defence (glock fu do). So why bother with even empty hand training?
I’m not so paraniod that something will happen to me that i need to worry about it, and i’m sure many other people are the same. So they train in MA that have some competitive element so that they get to develop and understand their skill. Also it’s fun, for health etc. not battle fields! If someone attacks me, then i will either prevail or not. so what?.. sh|t happens…
There are many places people can go to learn about ‘real self defence’ and learn many great things. But like i said, if you get surrounded by a street gang with knives and guns, or hit form behind or whatever can happen, then ur generally gonna be screwed either way… not much u can do about it. Everything is fallable, even self protection training.
People train things for different reasons, theres enough room for everybody. Some people can fight (even wothout MA training), other people can’t and never will…
I will have to disagree, pikers are pikers are pikers, it does not matter from which country one trains in, or in what system, be that system old style savate or hop gar, people who want to be inhibited by ritual or spend there time in a adult day care, or be sold a bill of goods to boost there confidence are a dime a dozen, its all about heart and honesty about what you as a student wants from that training.
IMHO America and its great collection of ethinc streams are what give the American citizen the ability to be “uninhibited” in its martial training, more so than any other country on earth, its been so since day one, since fronitersmen from many different nations marched out onto the wild front or those immigrents that sought to carve out a life for themselves and there families in a unkown and often hostle city or a war where farmer milita fought for there independence, the need for a person to learn how to surivive became a guiding factor and being inhibted was not a part of that struggle, meaning use what works, be that techniques for planting crops or techniques for sharp shooting british troops.
If anything I would call tkd koreanized, from what I understand cma is not the number one martial art in china, it is tkd and karate, its all about marketing and business on the consumer marketplace and that does not change where you go.
At its grassroots heart I do not see our country as glitz and glam, when united I see our country as a group of tough mother f@ckers with all sorts of skin colors and backgrounds that are anything but glitz and glamour, who when the chips have been placed down have always come out ready to bust heads and get bloody.
Take a look at our countries growth, our wars and battles, the human spirit is all there, everything from the Golden Gate Bridge to the WTC towers, from Iwo Jima to Kandahar. If one finds themselves not meeting enough Americans who have a bit of heart under there skin than they are not meeting true Americans, maybe they are meeting the Frence.
i took tkd for 3 years and only really learned one offensive technique(roundhouse kick). i got pretty good at it though and could land it anywhere from ankle to chest height, and to the head if i was really lucky. due mainly to sore feet i started using my shin as well as my insteps to strike with. thus, i could strike at a closer range since i am more of a “blitzer” than a “sniper”. because tkd did not really suit me well i eventually quit, but i can still blast off one of those roundhouse kicks, even in the clinch(in this case in looks kinda like a muay thai cut kick). what i’m saying is that tkd allows one to develope some pretty good skills, even if its not a complete art.
What is this supposed to prove? I think it showed that the TKD guy sucked. I think the MT guy sucked as well, but that’s not my point. The TKD teacher I first trained for would whoop both their asses. He is incredibly fast. He does a “pande-shagi” (hmm back-spinning roundhouse kick?) faster than I can blink my eye. It completely blew me away every time. He later went on to become the swedish champion and is currently training our OS team.
It’s not the style, it’s the person.
That said, TKD could benefit from some low kicks and more hand techniques… and some groundfighting..
If someone attacks me, then i will either prevail or not. so what?.. sh|t happens…