couple of questions-
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do you have your support leg straight or slightly bent
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when you do a roundhouse kick, do you pivot on the ball of your foot? if not, how do you get the support foot around?
reasons.
1- my leg is slightly bent
2- on the ball of the foot
Reasons: it feels natural to me to kick that way, and my master never taught me to do it in another fashion.
(by the way, hi to everyone this is my first post:D)
Kicking
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Usually bent, sometimes straight (when kicking really high; doesn’t happen very often)
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Ball of the foot (no options there, really, if one is to turn the foot; heel doesn’t work, nor do toes)
This was discussed in a thread here a few weeks ago. Do a search. If I find it, I’ll bump it up.
There are “options” : step and put your supporting foot in the final pivoted/turned position, and then follow through with your leg and hips.
Yeah it was discussed. I pivot on the ball of my foot. Someone said they just plant their food and leave it there. I asked how do you do that without tearing your knee apart, and I forgot what their reply was.
Originally posted by SevenStar
This was discussed in a thread here a few weeks ago. Do a search. If I find it, I’ll bump it up.
I thought that was a discussion on the support leg for the side kick. . . ? Anyway, the support leg for side and round are very similar, if not the same, ime. The difference is with the kicking leg, but on both of these kicks my support leg is slighlty bent and I pivot on the ball to where my heel is pointing toward the direction of my kicking target.
Nah, it was for the round. I was real busy today at work, but I’ll dig it up after class tonight.
This one was actually about something else, and ended up about the roundhouse:
The sole purpose of this one was the roundhouse:
http://martial.best.vwh.net/forum/showthread.php?threadid=29479&highlight=thai+pivot
I did wonder, because theres a guy at kung fu who says you shouldnt be on the balls of your feet when throwing a roundhouse. I didnt understand why he thought this- I do MT as well as KF, and my MT coach has a whole lot more experience than this guy. Didnt say anything though, I have better things to do with my time than argue with people.
Originally posted by yenhoi
[B]There are “options” : step and put your supporting foot in the final pivoted/turned position, and then follow through with your leg and hips.
[/B]
Sure, you’re right, but that’s not pivoting. That’s taking a step. And in any case, you’re actually pivoting midair with that, are you not? Unless you are not pivoting at all and doing a kind of monkey kick (which I used to have in my avatar), but that’s another kick altogether.
Also, you could not worry about the pivoting at all, and kick while jumping, but that doesn’t really apply to Ikken’s question, either. I guess he was asking how to pivot. The ball of the foot is the only way to do that.
As long as Ikken gets the point, it’s all good…
Now, Ikken, to be on the ball of your foot…you mean reaching up? Sometimes you have to, if the target is so high that you cannot reach it without standing up like that. Of course you could ask whether one really needs to use his legs in that situation, but that’s a topic for another thread (which I am sure has been discussed here before..)…
//mika
Re: support leg for roundhouse kick
Originally posted by Ikken Hisatsu
[B]couple of questions-
-
do you have your support leg straight or slightly bent
-
when you do a roundhouse kick, do you pivot on the ball of your foot? if not, how do you get the support foot around?
reasons. [/B]
-
At the moment of impact , which is only for a half second, its straight. Reason, there is a lot less stress on the supporting leg that way and you are able to loosen your groin muscles easier for the stretch and balance is easier to control.
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Usually on the ball, sometimes on the heel if there is a distancing issue and I don’t want to go that extra 8 inches or if I’m doing a retreating round with the front leg. Once pivoting and position is attained we bring the whole foot down to flat for the contact moment. Once the whip is done and the foot has tucked back to first position then we bend back to normal. It all sounds like a lot but its really a split second of action.
The key to power in a round is the whipping action. It can’t be a one way blunt kick. It has to whip out and back cleanly. A bullwhip gets its power from generating a wave from the hand, to the handle of the whip, through the length of it, compressing and speeding up the wave. So at the end you get a speed that breaks the sound barrier to get that familiar “crack” sound. By then the hand power has been transfered into an accute finite point. This action is relative to the roundhouse.
Re: Re: support leg for roundhouse kick
Originally posted by SifuAbel
[B]
- At the moment of impact , which is only for a half second, its straight. Reason, there is a lot less stress on the supporting leg that way and you are able to loosen your groin muscles easier for the stretch and balance is easier to control.[/b]
I bend my support leg if I’m doing a low kick.
2. Usually on the ball, sometimes on the heel if there is a distancing issue and I don’t want to go that extra 8 inches or if I’m doing a retreating round with the front leg. Once pivoting and position is attained we bring the whole foot down to flat for the contact moment. Once the whip is done and the foot has tucked back to first position then we bend back to normal. It all sounds like a lot but its really a split second of action.
We get our support foot around by shuffling, not by pivoting.
The key to power in a round is the whipping action. It can’t be a one way blunt kick. It has to whip out and back cleanly. A bullwhip gets its power from generating a wave from the hand, to the handle of the whip, through the length of it, compressing and speeding up the wave. So at the end you get a speed that breaks the sound barrier to get that familiar “crack” sound. By then the hand power has been transfered into an accute finite point. This action is relative to the roundhouse.
the thai roundhouse doesn’t get it’s power from the snap. If you are throwing a thai kick and hear a snap, you probably aren’t throwing all that hard. A good thai roundhouse makes more of a deep thud than a loud crack.
Ikken, how to roundhouse varies amongst CMA and thai boxers, hence the discussions I posted earlier.
I don’t think the thai round house is whats being discussed here.
The snap is describing action, not sound.
define shuffling…
The power is generated by the over all movement. The final snap is just the delivery.
The anaolgy with the bullwhip was meant to show that the energy is carried from the very beginning of the movement from the ground out to the end of the leg. Holding and just waiting in position and then kicking in a broken movement does not generate the same power.
Originally posted by SifuAbel
I don’t think the thai round house is whats being discussed here.
yeah, I agree. I’m just offering a different perspective of the kick.
The snap is describing action, not sound.
I know. when I said “hear a snap” I actually meant “hear a crack” - that loud popping noise when a snap kick hits the pad.
define shuffling…
In thai, it’s called a switch kick. If I am left lead, I switch my feet, bringing my lead back slightly, and moving my right forward some and simultaneously turning the right foot outward as it advances. Basically, you just switched leads, and the right root is already turned out, so there’s no need to pivot. If you’ve done jkd or jun fan, it’s similar to a ‘z’ step.
you can also step outward, without the switch.
The power is generated by the over all movement. The final snap is just the delivery.
naturally. the MT kick doesn’t snap at all, which is why I singled out the snap.
“the thai roundhouse doesn’t get it’s power from the snap.”
This is what you posted. You posted about power generation, not delivery.
The crack is the sound of skin hitting leather, not the sound barrier breaking. LOL! I can get good sound out of a bag too, especially with no shoes on. Thats not an issue. Snap in our definition is the action , not the sound.
The switch kick leaves you twisted in too many directions. And, puts too much stress on the knees. Ask ric rufus. You can do it if you want. Either way, its a huge telegraph.
“yeah, I agree. I’m just offering a different perspective of the kick.”
Its an all together differnt kick that happens to share the name. Its not done in the same way for the same pupose.
Originally posted by SifuAbel
[B]“the thai roundhouse doesn’t get it’s power from the snap.”
This is what you posted. You posted about power generation, not delivery.[/b]
this is what you posted: “The key to power in a round is the whipping action.”
that’s what I was addressing when I said snap. I used crack to describbe the sound, as I stated in my last post. In a thai kick, whipping motion is not the key to its power.
The crack is the sound of skin hitting leather, not the sound barrier breaking. LOL!
I never said that it was. I wasn’t addressing your sound barrier comment.
I can get good sound out of a bag too, especially with no shoes on. Thats not an issue. Snap in our definition is the action , not the sound.
the sound is an issue… a whipping kick makes quite a different sound than a penetrating one.
The switch kick leaves you twisted in too many directions. And, puts too much stress on the knees. Ask ric rufus. You can do it if you want. Either way, its a huge telegraph.
it’s not a huge telegraph. the switch can be as subtle as you make it. You’re not twisted in too many directions either. your body is headed in one direction - the direction of the kick. The trauma of one person is not indicative that the kick places undew stress on the knees.
Its an all together differnt kick that happens to share the name. Its not done in the same way for the same pupose.
it’s the same kick. it’s done VERY differently though.
just to clarify, it is a MT kick. I practice kung fu and MT, and I find MT kicks are just plain better so thats what I use. my sifu agrees, and we are starting to teach people MT round kicks as opposed to classic CMA round kicks.
and im not on the ball of my foot to reach up to the target (if its that high it isnt worth it), i just find it difficult to move the entire foot- I can do it, but the friction slows the whole thing down so its less powerful.
as for switch kicks, i am left handed and fight in a southpaw stance. I have a lot of difficulty in doing roundhouse kicks with my right leg from an old running injury, however I can do far better side kicks off that leg than off my left. to be honest, i dont think switch kicks are worth it. they do telegraph if the opponent has any idea about MT, and you can get more power from other kicks. rarely see them used in K-1.
whatever makes you feel good…
Originally posted by Ikken Hisatsu
just to clarify, it is a MT kick. I practice kung fu and MT, and I find MT kicks are just plain better so thats what I use. my sifu agrees, and we are starting to teach people MT round kicks as opposed to classic CMA round kicks.
and im not on the ball of my foot to reach up to the target (if its that high it isnt worth it), i just find it difficult to move the entire foot- I can do it, but the friction slows the whole thing down so its less powerful.
yeah, I know what you mean.
as for switch kicks, i am left handed and fight in a southpaw stance. I have a lot of difficulty in doing roundhouse kicks with my right leg from an old running injury, however I can do far better side kicks off that leg than off my left. to be honest, i dont think switch kicks are worth it. they do telegraph if the opponent has any idea about MT, and you can get more power from other kicks. rarely see them used in K-1.
switch kicks are the shiznit. you can’t just switch - it needs to be set up - as in off of a punch. I can get the same power out of both, but I’m a hard kicker anyway, so it may just be me.