I’m curious about the various techniques people use in roundhouse kicks. The technique my school uses is one that I’m not really finding anywhere else, and has led to some confusion when I discuss kicks with other people, as apparently everyone assumes I’m talking about a different kick than I am. I’d be interested to know if people here are more familiar with it, what opinions everyone has, etc, as well as if other schools utilize the kick under a different name.
I don’t have a video camera, so here’s my best shot at describing it:
Chamber in front of the body, knee straight up, shin vertical, and hips square. As the hips snap to the side, the foot points (all our chambers are with foot flexed) and the shin pivots to horizontal while snapping out to straighten the leg. The knee does not move in space from where it was in chamber. Striking surface is predominantly the top of the foot, but in practice works as foot, ankle, or shin.
It’s an interesting kick, as compared to other roundhouses I’ve seen it can be thrown in an extremely narrow space, and it seems to catch people off guard fairly well. It’s taking a while for me to build solid power with it, but I am getting there, and that already seems somewhat offset by how quickly it allows a temple shot. It also leaves me basically still in chamber or with a knee block up, though personally I don’t like throwing kick combos as it leaves me on one leg and vulnerable longer than I prefer.
What we’re told is that this kind of round house is harder to see coming. There is less power at first, until it is practiced. The round house you see in some other martial arts, and Muay Thai are easier to see coming.
Ever since I’ve learned the round house that way, I’ve watched how people do it in other martial arts on the Internet and mma. It seems Chinese martial artists are ‘usually’ the only ones that use it this way.
I like it. My roundhouse is still not great, and I have trouble reaching my opponents head, but that is stretching, not technique. Other people at our school have no problem extending their roundhouses at the head or higher.
I dont think its the way your delivering the kick that matters, as snajuro said what ever works in the situation or for your body type is correct.
i.e tight space tight kick, icy street different kick. boots one way, bare feet another. too many variations to just cookie cut.
The problem lies in your focus area… the proper way to kick in the way you described it to focus and strike with he ball of the foot. You cannot snap and lock and delvier power if you are using the tarcel area of the foot. this is a sweeping across type motion with no pinpoint focus and not very strong as the weakness is in the ankle. Try kicking a concrete wall witht eh top of the foot, then use the ball you will feel the difference, when you use the ball of the foot.
The kick is much more focused and aligns the body mechanices properly. The only time you should use the tarcel bones (top of foot) is to kick the side of the thigh, if you are kicking the ribs or the head you must use the ball of the foot.
[QUOTE=EarthDragon;914642]I dont think its the way your delivering the kick that matters, as snajuro said what ever works in the situation or for your body type is correct.
i.e tight space tight kick, icy street different kick. boots one way, bare feet another. too many variations to just cookie cut.
The problem lies in your focus area… the proper way to kick in the way you described it to focus and strike with he ball of the foot. You cannot snap and lock and delvier power if you are using the tarcel area of the foot. this is a sweeping across type motion with no pinpoint focus and not very strong as the weakness is in the ankle. Try kicking a concrete wall witht eh top of the foot, then use the ball you will feel the difference, when you use the ball of the foot.
The kick is much more focused and aligns the body mechanices properly. The only time you should use the tarcel bones (top of foot) is to kick the side of the thigh, if you are kicking the ribs or the head you must use the ball of the foot.[/QUOTE]
yes, but the ball of the foot round kick, the "bread n butter round kick of ITF TKD and most Traditional Karate systems, is not an attacking round kick and it is not thrown in a way that MOSt are taught to throw their round kicks either, the angle is much greater so that the ball of the foot contacts and not the toes.
agreed, however as I kick both ways I can assure you that the ball of the foot delivers much more power, more injury to your opponent and less injury to you. if that what your looking for.. as you should if your kicking.
Again the sweeping motion of say a back hand slap cannot be compared to the twist of a heel palm strike and while the hand and foot are almost the same mechanics and motion there is a huge difference.
[QUOTE=EarthDragon;914660]agreed, however as I kick both ways I can assure you that the ball of the foot delivers much more power, more injury to your opponent and less injury to you. if that what your looking for.. as you should if your kicking.
Again the sweeping motion of say a back hand slap cannot be compared to the twist of a heel palm strike and while the hand and foot are almost the same mechanics and motion there is a huge difference.[/QUOTE]
Well, I know that if I am gonna break something with a round kick, its gonna be the ball of the foot and not the instep, that’s for sure !!
LOL !
But, that said, the lower shin is still a “better” area for the majority of people.
let me paly devils advocate… how many people out here have properly taken the years and punishment to condition thier shin bone to withstand a power kick? I saw a MT guy kick a stop sign post 1/2 power with his shin and he didnt even wince. I said how long have you conditioned your shin to do that? he said daily LOL has anyone done this? be honest
[QUOTE=EarthDragon;914667]let me paly devils advocate… how many people out here have properly taken the years and punishment to condition thier shin bone to withstand a power kick? I saw a MT guy kick a stop sign post 1/2 power with his shin and he didnt even wince. I said how long have you conditioned your shin to do that? he said daily LOL has anyone done this? be honest[/QUOTE]
Nope, or those Uechi-ryu guys?
Then again, the shin is a naturally harder weapon than the ball of the foot and the question applies to those that use the ball of the foot too, how many have conditioned theirs and more importantly, their toes?
[QUOTE=EarthDragon;914642]I dont think its the way your delivering the kick that matters, as snajuro said what ever works in the situation or for your body type is correct.
i.e tight space tight kick, icy street different kick. boots one way, bare feet another. too many variations to just cookie cut.[/QUOTE]
Well, certainly. I’m not looking for “the” kick to use, just thoughts and opinions on this particular kick as it’s been a point of some difficulty in conversations with other stylists.
The problem lies in your focus area… the proper way to kick in the way you described it to focus and strike with he ball of the foot. You cannot snap and lock and delvier power if you are using the tarcel area of the foot. this is a sweeping across type motion with no pinpoint focus and not very strong as the weakness is in the ankle. Try kicking a concrete wall witht eh top of the foot, then use the ball you will feel the difference, when you use the ball of the foot.
I see what you’re saying on one level, but I’m a bit confused about your comment on the ankle. It seems to me that the setup of the ankle is stronger with the foot at full point and hitting the tarcel area, as opposed to hitting with the ball of the foot which would allow the ankle to buckle into a foot flexed position. Or are you talking about actual damage to the ankle?
The kick is much more focused and aligns the body mechanices properly. The only time you should use the tarcel bones (top of foot) is to kick the side of the thigh, if you are kicking the ribs or the head you must use the ball of the foot.
I tried throwing a few just now using the ball as the striking surface. Seems like this requires the hips to snap twice in order to allow the foot to rotate into position (from square to kick-side-forward, then back to square). Unless I’m doing it wrong, which is eminently possible, it’s pretty awkward.
knee up roughly vertical slanted a bit in one fluid motion in conjuunction with teh hips snap oout your shin delivering the blow with the lower part of your shin and pushign in with the hips in one motion. thats how i do it sounds like you all have similar stories
Well, certainly. I’m not looking for “the” kick to use, just thoughts and opinions on this particular kick as it’s been a point of some difficulty in conversations with other stylists.
understood however the confusion comes because different styles and systems use different ways and this can be argued if people dont understadn the differences and why
I see what you’re saying on one level, but I’m a bit confused about your comment on the ankle. It seems to me that the setup of the ankle is stronger with the foot at full point and hitting the tarcel area, as opposed to hitting with the ball of the foot which would allow the ankle to buckle into a foot flexed position. Or are you talking about actual damage to the ankle?
the ankle is never stronger than the ball of the foot as the ankle is a hinge joint and the ball of the foot is not. compare the wrist to the heel of your palm same thing
tried throwing a few just now using the ball as the striking surface. Seems like this requires the hips to snap twice in order to allow the foot to rotate into position (from square to kick-side-forward, then back to square). Unless I’m doing it wrong, which is eminently possible, it’s pretty awkward.
no , chamber up, snap out, chamber back, palce leg down to fighting stance.
LOL its only akward because your not used to it, only doen it a couple times and you might not have good flexibility. if you practice it will be boviously easier.
if you want to test the differences in the kicks as I said said kick a metal post of a phone pole, you cannot possibly kick harder with the shin or the top of the foot than you can with the ball but it does take practuice and flexibility to get the hips to open. I teach my students both ways and in a little while the can kick thier opponents right in the temple with control of course…
[QUOTE=sanjuro_ronin;914670]Nope, or those Uechi-ryu guys?
Then again, the shin is a naturally harder weapon than the ball of the foot and the question applies to those that use the ball of the foot too, how many have conditioned theirs and more importantly, their toes?[/QUOTE]
when you learn ring footwork you condition dancing on yer toes… just saying
Ok, when you folks talk about striking with the ball of the foot, are you talking about just flexing the foot and pulling the toes back, with the rest of the kick unaltered? I’ve been trying out every alteration I can think of that would allow using the ball of the foot and so far every other one forces my hips back to square (and no, flexibility isn’t a problem; I used to be a gymnast and am one of the most flexible people at my school).
[QUOTE=Reverend Tap;914932]Ok, when you folks talk about striking with the ball of the foot, are you talking about just flexing the foot and pulling the toes back, with the rest of the kick unaltered? I’ve been trying out every alteration I can think of that would allow using the ball of the foot and so far every other one forces my hips back to square (and no, flexibility isn’t a problem; I used to be a gymnast and am one of the most flexible people at my school).[/QUOTE]
thanks for finding that sanjuro, it guess it harderrt o explain then I thought.
As you can see if you were to kick those clay tiles with the top of the foot it would hurt a bit even though they are very thin and fragile.
Now imagine kicking a concrete wall, or a 2x4 it would probably damage the top of the foot so much you would not be able to stand on it after the kick that it why i prefer the ball, the head it strong like concrete and breaking a rib is like a 2x4.
[QUOTE=EarthDragon;914942]thanks for finding that sanjuro, it guess it harderrt o explain then I thought.
As you can see if you were to kick those clay tiles with the top of the foot it would hurt a bit even though they are very thin and fragile.
Now imagine kicking a concrete wall, or a 2x4 it would probably damage the top of the foot so much you would not be able to stand on it after the kick that it why i prefer the ball, the head it strong like concrete and breaking a rib is like a 2x4.[/QUOTE]
Well, the issue is one of damage to the toes.
See, moving targets are just that, moving and the slightest shift can cause contact to be made with the toes and not the ball, whereas with the lower shin ( even the instep) if you miss its a tad more forgiving.
I know that conditoning is suppose to “fix” the problem but the truth is, IF one decides to condition the toes and ball of the foot, what keeps from someone else to condition the shin and instep?
Now, personally, I find the argument kind of “irrelevant” because, if you kick in the “street” we will be wearing shoes and that will tend to take care of the toes and make ball-of-the foot kicking more effective, it wall also make shin and instep better too.
It becomes one of personal preference on HOW a round kick is used.
That said, no matter what type you choose, “forging” is a must.
