I was wondering how many people on here do Qigong, meditiation, and body conditioning. I’ve spoken to many Wing Chun practitioners over the years and it seems that most of them don’t do these things. It’s a shame because it really makes a big difference. Maybe I’m just talking to the wrong people. I know that my sifu has always stressed these things and I can’t imagine training without them. I know that doing the forms is also a form of Qigong, but it’s not quite the same as the meditation or other exercises. The worst excuse I heard against body conditioning was last month when some guy said to me “Why do you want to train yourself to be a punching bag?” Of course you don’t want to get hit. But if your skill is not perfect, chances are you will get hit. If you’ve done no conditioning, you’ll drop at the first hit. Another major benefit is that it helps you to hit harder. If you do hand and arm conditioning using fists, palms, backhands, forearms, and any other striking surface, the benefits are just huge. And it doesn’t have to be limited to wallbags or iron palm bags. Conditioning on trees is excellent and it need not be an ordeal that leaves you all bruised and bloody. It’s a gradual thing and in fact, I’ve found it to be somewhat meditative.
“Why do you want to train yourself to be a punching bag?” haha, it’s amazing the things people say and convince themselves of!
In HFY, we have Jiam Jong training as well as our Keun Jong Dip Gwat Gung SLT form for Qigong, breathing and bone/tendon strengthening (as well as faat ging training benifits). We also have iron shirt training, but I haven’t done much of that simply becasue it hasn’t been my focus - although I feel it has great benifits!
Beisdes that, I have also done iron hand/palm training on my own. Nothing mystical there, just the normal regment of hitting stuff that’s progressively harder (beans/sand to rock, to shot etc) along with Jow for healing. Didn’t get deep into the steel shot though, but I don’t have nearly as much fear hitting things with a fist or open hand as I would have before the training.
Meditation, yes.
Yoga rather than qigong. IMHO qigong is not specific to Wing Chun, and most styles have borrowed it from somewhere else.
I’ve seen mixed results from iron palm training - it makes bones harder but more brittle, and doing it for too long isn’t great for your mental health. Even the most advanced KF guys I know only do it in occasional bursts. “Iron palm drives you mad”, is the saying, and while in the old days (1850) this might have been due to toxic ingredients like heavy metals in some of the “medicines”, there’s still some truth in it IMHO.
Body conditioning is necessary for any serious martial artist. I do not believe in qi . As for meditation , I think roasted lamb and cold beer will do the job .
[QUOTE=anerlich;1232090]Meditation, yes.
Yoga rather than qigong. IMHO qigong is not specific to Wing Chun, and most styles have borrowed it from somewhere else.
I’ve seen mixed results from iron palm training - it makes bones harder but more brittle, and doing it for too long isn’t great for your mental health. Even the most advanced KF guys I know only do it in occasional bursts. “Iron palm drives you mad”, is the saying, and while in the old days (1850) this might have been due to toxic ingredients like heavy metals in some of the “medicines”, there’s still some truth in it IMHO.[/QUOTE]
I’m thinking of trying yoga. Do you think it adds something to your wing chun or do you practice it solely for health reasons? Thanks:)
[QUOTE=zuti car;1232143]Body conditioning is necessary for any serious martial artist. I do not believe in qi . As for meditation , I think roasted lamb and cold beer will do the job .[/QUOTE]
I don’t believe in Qi the way many people do seeing it as some sort of super power. The purpose of Qigong is to learn to control your breathing and relaxation. You must stay present and relaxed during a real fight and Qigong can help with this. If nothing else, remember to always breathe through your nose, breath deeply with your stomach (not shallow with your chest), and keep your tongue touching the roof of your mouth. Practice all your movements breathing like this. You can take any movement from the forms, do them slowly, and breath like this. Try it.
[QUOTE=HammockRider;1232155]I’m thinking of trying yoga. Do you think it adds something to your wing chun or do you practice it solely for health reasons? Thanks:)[/QUOTE]
I did yoga 4 times a week for 3 years and was never healthier… id highly recommend it
[QUOTE=hulkout;1232060]I was wondering how many people on here do Qigong, meditiation, and body conditioning. I’ve spoken to many Wing Chun practitioners over the years and it seems that most of them don’t do these things.[/QUOTE]
I personally think if you haven’t had an explanation of the heigung/qigong aspects of Siu Lim Tau then you could potentially miss out on the whole purpose of Wing Chun training as a healthy alternative exercise.
Traditionally, heigung was a part of all Chinese Martial Arts and it was important especially at the beginning to grasp the idea that you wasn’t just swinging your arms and legs about with your muscles, although they do play a big part in what you do! Core strength training, cardiovascular conditioning and the like should all be embedded in your Wing Chun training and explored within all forms, interactions and apparatus we are known to hold.
In the Lee Shing lineage we have various Heigung training and sets developed over the years by Lee Shing himself and his students like Sifu Austin Goh, mainly for early hard heigung breaking demonstrations. But like a wine we refine these skills over time and many turn to healing methods and seek further training from more experienced people.
Heigung is not a ‘belief’ for me it’s a steadfast reality.
As I learn more about Wing Chun and Qigong, I’m learning more how Sil Lim Tao can have many more health benefits than I previously thought. However most practitioners don’t practice in a way which would develop that. The elements of the system may be there, but most sifus just want to get to the more physical combative stuff right away. This might be because of the fact that they know most students will probably drop out if they “waste” too much time doing things like meditation and Qigong. I guess there’s a fine line between teaching quality and running a business. My sifu is more or less retired and only teaches the people he wants to. So he’s not really too concerned with money. Of course you have to pay him for his services, but he won’t compromise quality just to make more money or to get more students.
wing chun doesn’t train these things because as a style, wing chun isn’t about that.
Wing Chun is designed to be learned in a short period of time and to be used with the same immediacy.
It is not the same as great big robust systems because those take to long and have too many thing in them that are not directly related to fighting.
hence the progressive three sets to learn the strikes an kicks, the pole set to learn that weapon, the 8 cut knives set to learn the blades and the dummy training to condition the bridges.
It is intended to be a concise and distilled form of Shaolin Kung Fu.
I find that there are many who over mystify this style in particular and attribute add ins that were never there in the first place in order to make it bigger than what it is.
This loses sight of the elegant simplicity of Wing Chun and probably is the biggest reason that different camps get into heated verbal exchanges when one school decides their wing chun has more than another. Which is nonsense and people will blow up about it, but it’s true. It’s meant to be simple and fast to learn and use. It isn’t meant to be meditation and qigong and nei gong and 18 weapons and 72 consummate skills and bone marrow washing classics etc etc. You can learn those things just fine, but they aren’t part fo wing chun. Wing chun is a simple and effective boxing method. Over-inflate it and it becomes a convoluted mess.
[QUOTE=David Jamieson;1232170]wing chun doesn’t train these things because as a style, wing chun isn’t about that…
… Wing chun is a simple and effective boxing method. Over-inflate it and it becomes a convoluted mess.[/QUOTE]
I would only point out that Wing Chun is not a ‘style’ as such for me, although much can be said for Ip Man and his ‘style’ of teaching that supports your claims.
Wing Chun has a pretty short history compared to other arts, but it is still long enough to go through many different developments through many different families.
In one hand you are right not to over inflate it, but to suggest it’s simply a boxing method is also underestimating the system big time.
Qigong is a part of all styles of Kung Fu. Giqong, meditation, and body conditioning are training methods which will help your Wing Chun as well as enhance other aspects of y our life. They are not fighting techniques. They are present in everything you do. That’s the idea. I suppose running or other cardio, stretching, and resistance training aren’t part of Wing Chun so you shouldn’t do those either. You might make it a convoluted mess. i guess you aren’t allowed to do any additional training because you’ll be adding too much. Give me a break!
[QUOTE=hulkout;1232184]I suppose running or other cardio, stretching, and resistance training aren’t part of Wing Chun so you shouldn’t do those either. You might make it a convoluted mess. i guess you aren’t allowed to do any additional training because you’ll be adding too much. Give me a break![/QUOTE]
Those things are not part of wing chun. Nobody said they are not part of a healthy lifestyle.
Wing Chun is what it is, I wish people would stop trying to add extras to make it everything to everyone.
I’m thinking of trying yoga. Do you think it adds something to your wing chun or do you practice it solely for health reasons? Thanks
I practice it for breath control, flexibility, and relaxation, especially in contorted positions. I’m not sure it adds a whole lot to my 'Chun other than the obvious values of flexibility and relaxation. I find I related better to it than I do to qigong. YMMV.
It is DEFINITELY a bonus for my Jiu jitsu. But really it’s for life. Same as meditation. The benefits go way beyond WC practice.
There are only 24 hours in a day. You could argue you need to become fluent in Mandarin or Cantonese, study TCM and Dim Mak to a deep level, read all the Buddist and Taoist texts, etc. etc. etc. to be a true student (some have). As well as all the other stuff you need to do for strength, power, flexibility, and endurance. Somewhere in there you need to earn a living and be a good citizen, family member, friend, be kind to your pets, etc.
It’s your life, your practice, not that of someone on an internet forum you never met. Your choice. Screw them.
I suppose running or other cardio, stretching, and resistance training aren’t part of Wing Chun so you shouldn’t do those either. You might make it a convoluted mess. i guess you aren’t allowed to do any additional training because you’ll be adding too much.
Not sure who you’re talking to, but I do all that sh*t plus Jiu Jitsu. For some reason, I don’t feel as messed up and confused as some people think I should.
[QUOTE=Eric_H;1232228]Wing Chun is what it is, I wish people would stop trying to add extras to make it everything to everyone.[/QUOTE]
I think this type of attitude is why we are in the mess we are today and possibly why most people don’t share what they have been taught, because most people don’t do or see Wing Chun like they do. We all have this ‘unique’ syndrome lol!
Begs the question, do you train the system or the style? There are many styles that advocate additional training and have developed over the years through direct experimentation (especially in the West) and there is the System which has been open to interpretation for far too long IMHO and possibly never been taught in it’s entirety either! From the system comes personal style, it does not work the other way round! And so I search for people interested in exactly what makes our system 
and how each stylist has contributed possible better ways to train new generations. Never close your mind to all possibilities.
Wing Chun hasn’t actually been ‘what it is’ for a very long time but that all depends on your own learning experience. And even if it is ‘what it is’ what is that exactly? Nobody can tell anyone, we can only share what we know and it is plain obvious we all know and explain things in different ways lol!
[QUOTE=David Jamieson;1232170]wing chun doesn’t train these things because as a style, wing chun isn’t about that.
Wing Chun is designed to be learned in a short period of time and to be used with the same immediacy.
It is not the same as great big robust systems because those take to long and have too many thing in them that are not directly related to fighting.
hence the progressive three sets to learn the strikes an kicks, the pole set to learn that weapon, the 8 cut knives set to learn the blades and the dummy training to condition the bridges.
It is intended to be a concise and distilled form of Shaolin Kung Fu.
I find that there are many who over mystify this style in particular and attribute add ins that were never there in the first place in order to make it bigger than what it is.
This loses sight of the elegant simplicity of Wing Chun and probably is the biggest reason that different camps get into heated verbal exchanges when one school decides their wing chun has more than another. Which is nonsense and people will blow up about it, but it’s true. It’s meant to be simple and fast to learn and use. It isn’t meant to be meditation and qigong and nei gong and 18 weapons and 72 consummate skills and bone marrow washing classics etc etc. You can learn those things just fine, but they aren’t part fo wing chun. Wing chun is a simple and effective boxing method. Over-inflate it and it becomes a convoluted mess.[/QUOTE]
Simple and profound.
I just don’t understand the mentality here. To say that it’s a simple system. Yes, that’s true. But that doesn’t mean that’s all there is to do. Conditioning exercises and additional training can be viewed as being separate from the system. I’m not talking about adding spinning scorpion kicks or flying elbow drops. Qigong and meditation are useful no matter what you do. I know some powerlifters who practice Qigong and meditation. It helps you in everything. The guy who said that adding things to it takes away from the simplicity is missing the point. It’s not about adding to the system. It’s about doing exercises and meditation to make it better. And if you do go outside the box, so what? As long as you understand the principles, you can make it your own and make it work for you. It’s also not about saying that my lineage is better than yours because we do these things or whatever. It’s just an exchange of ideas. That’s all. Trying to share ideas and maybe learn from one another. Attitudes like this are the very reason the Wing Chun community is the laughing stock of the martial arts world.
I have a friend who practices Muay Thai. He respects Wing Chun and the fact that I do it. But in his gym, the guys have a joke. How many Wing Chun guys does it take to screw in a lightbulb? The answer is five. One guy to do it and four guys to tell him he’s doing it wrong. It’s common knowledge that there’s so much idiotic bickering among us. Honestly I just don’t get it. More and more, I’m starting to think that posting on this forum or even talking to other practitioners form different lineages is useless. There are some very good people, but there’s always this underlying attitude of “Wing Chun is this. Not that. How dare you change or add to it in any way!”
VERY FEW ip man lineage wing chun schools teach the following…Although i will say i neglected sitting meditation…to boring for me…but conditioning and Chi Kung is some i did alot of growing up…An its good to do when your sick or injured…But also stretching…alot of WC guys simply dont stretch!!!
i could go on and on about whats not done!!!
[QUOTE=hulkout;1232060]I was wondering how many people on here do Qigong, meditiation, and body conditioning. I’ve spoken to many Wing Chun practitioners over the years and it seems that most of them don’t do these things. It’s a shame because it really makes a big difference. Maybe I’m just talking to the wrong people. I know that my sifu has always stressed these things and I can’t imagine training without them. I know that doing the forms is also a form of Qigong, but it’s not quite the same as the meditation or other exercises. The worst excuse I heard against body conditioning was last month when some guy said to me “Why do you want to train yourself to be a punching bag?” Of course you don’t want to get hit. But if your skill is not perfect, chances are you will get hit. If you’ve done no conditioning, you’ll drop at the first hit. Another major benefit is that it helps you to hit harder. If you do hand and arm conditioning using fists, palms, backhands, forearms, and any other striking surface, the benefits are just huge. And it doesn’t have to be limited to wallbags or iron palm bags. Conditioning on trees is excellent and it need not be an ordeal that leaves you all bruised and bloody. It’s a gradual thing and in fact, I’ve found it to be somewhat meditative.[/QUOTE]
I smell bs..
[QUOTE=Yoshiyahu;1232287]VERY FEW ip man lineage wing chun schools teach the following…alot of WC guys simply dont stretch!!!
i could go on and on about whats not done!!![/QUOTE]
Really, how many WC schools and/or other Ip Man practitioners have you trained at or visited in the St. Louis area to make these statements?
How do you know what others are doing or not doing? Or is this just all speculation? Please, go on… :rolleyes:
[QUOTE=JPinAZ;1232289]Really, how many WC schools and practitioners have you trained at or visited in the St. Louis area to make these statements?
How do you know what others are doing or not doing? Please, go on… :rolleyes:[/QUOTE]
i listen to you mofos talk…an what yall be saying is evidence by spouting out of your ignorant beliefs!!!
But i have trained with two wing chun schools in saint louis!!!