Alright,
One of you gurus tell me how to get stronger without gaining any weight… and then tell me how to do it in a maximum of 20 minutes per workout, ACTUAL gym time, including warm-ups.
No machines.
Merry,
Greetings. I am no guru, but iron fist, el pietro, ford pefect, and abobo seem to be the gurus here and if i left anyone out pls do forgive me.
First, warm ups are over rated especially if strength is your main concern. Why? If you read Supertraining by Professor Siff or even the Pavel’s Power to The People, these communist russians strength guru do not really believe in the benefits of warm ups like us americans. To sum it up, you waste energy for strength training. If you warm up to prevent injuries, there are plenty of research and experience of athletes who don’t warm ups and lift crazy weight with no injuries. Practice common sense and also
try to practice “economy of movement and energy” which a theory within my martial paradigm.
20 mins only? Ok, do one set of 5 reps/ 2 mins bet. the next exercises/ do the five basic power movements such as bench press, shoulder press, deadlifts, bar rows, and last but not least squats. You can do this daily without bulking up, and you shouldn’t go to muscular failure. Pick a weight where you can do 8-10 reps and just do 5 reps, of course you can do progressive loading, but never to failure. If you worry of over training or being too sore, then you don’t understand this kind of training and I suggest reading up on this kind of training.
Go check out Pavel’s book Power to The People at www.dragondoor.com. I hope this helps.
I figured somebody’d bring up Pavel 
next?
I wouldn’t call myself a guru - but Baobao, let’s just say I’m smarter than the average bear…
Your question is definitely leaning toward PtP, which is for absolute strength (not mass), can be done in 20 minutes (4 sets, ~5 min rest intervals), with two heavy compound lifts (no machines).
But, while I understand it all on paper, I am actually just starting the program today myself, so I’ll refer you to Ironfist’s explanation.
Ok, my strenght training actually follows a similar time constraint as yours (I spend about 30-35 min on it each session), and I have a similar goal (power-to-weight ratio). Keep in mind that with strenght training you will get bigger, but marginally so unless you up volume and mainly up eating 
So I’ll shrink down my strenght routine to fit the 20min requirement you have:
3 sets each exercise, last two to failure, 10-6 reps, 2min rest between sets. (total time about 15min, plus limber-up and stretch equals 20min).
Monday
- 2 min limber-up
- chinups
- upright rows
- 3 min stretch (six 30sec stretches)
Tuesday
- 2 min limber-up
- benchpress
- dumbell incline press
- 3 min stretch (six 30sec stretches)
Wednesday
- 2 min limber-up
- squats
- calf raises
- 3 min stretch (six 30sec stretches)
Thursday
- 2 min limber-up
- dips
- bicep curls
- 3 min stretch (six 30sec stretches)
Friday
- 2 min limber-up
- deadlifts
- shoulder press
- 3 min stretch (six 30sec stretches)
Saturday and sunday rest.
You can have great strenght (and size if you eat big) gains on this program, and rarely taxes enough to cause prolonged soreness or overtraining (both of which would affect your gains and your MA training).
Hope it helps,
W
I do PTP with neck presses and pullups added, and I’m in and out of the gym within about a half hour. I haven’t been doing it long enough to really testify for it’s effectiveness, but you can definitely do it within your proscribed time constraints.
300 Hindu squats, 100 Hindu pushups. 1 set of pullups. Some kind of bridging for a minute or two. 100 jumping jacks. You’re done, in about 20-25 minutes.
That’s if 300 hindu squats tire you out. If you are some kind of 1000-rep squatter, this workout would take much longer and put you over your target time.
i imagine a crucial factor here is how you eat. whenever i’m doing any kind of training, be it weights/ grappling/ boxing/ whatever, i tend to get stronger over time but my weight doesnt seem to change that much unless i eat accordingly. of coarse, i have read that at some point, the body can get no stronger unless it increases it’s mass. i suppose some weight gain, at least some small gains in lean muscle mass, are inevitable if u do strength training long enough. what’s the big deal anyway…
dont u want to be HUGE??? BE A MAN ! STOP TALKING LIKE A WUSSY!!!
LOL,
I shouldn’t really worry about gaining weight… it’s not something I do well anyway
I was really just trying to say, don’t give me a hypertrophy workout.
I definitely can’t do more than 2 or 3x per week, so I’ll probably have to stick with the core power lifts–and because of my training schedule- 2 a days, plus a wierd sleep cycle, I’ll have to take precautions to avoid overtraining…especially when cutting weight.
If you can do something 300 times, rest assured you are not building strength.
If you have limited time, then do extremely heavy compound movements. With squats, bench and deadlifts you are pretty much hitting every musclegroup. Focus on lifting heavier every time you lift, and work in the 1-6 rep range for your first set after warmup. You could alternate squats and deads as they work many similar muscle groups. Or alternate intensity week to week.
I’m not sure if some are confusing warmup for stretching. I don’t know many power lifter or strength trainers that don’t believe in warming up, but the rest of the argument could be applied to stretching, as stretching prior to lifting hasn’t shown to reduce injuries at all in strength training athletes.
I have started lifting good again recently and have been successful in losing only 3-6 pounds, but have gained much better muscle and strength at the same time. The beauty of course, is gaining muscle and strength while losing fat. My pants are definately getting lose.
So depending on what shape you are in, maybe you could do the lose fat, gain muscle approach for a while. In my case, I am eating a LOT less than I was before. At some point, that will no longer work once you get real lean. Surely you have some extra padding to lose?
Then of course, once lean, the food factor is primary, as it will take a certian amount of calories to maintain your body weight. Just make sure it is not all beer.
Originally posted by ElPietro
[B]If you can do something 300 times, rest assured you are not building strength.
[/B]
Prolly not, but you can increase your muscle endurance, maintain your muscular strength, improve your structure, and strengthen your tendons and ligament. All this leads to a moderate increase in sports-specific strength. Lets not belittle muscular endurance - it may not be much for Self-Defense, but when you fight rounds and kick and punch the bag repeatedly you’ll find that you want that endurance as much as you want raw strength. I think it might be a good thing to focus on for a while if you have a reason to - mine is injury, but MP’s might be time consideration. Anyway I’m sure he’s way too bored by bodyweight exercises just like everyone else.
Originally posted by CD Lee
So depending on what shape you are in, maybe you could do the lose fat, gain muscle approach for a while.
Those are conflicting goals, really, so trying to do both at once can be extremely difficult to do (unless, like yourself, the person is just getting into lifting weights).
Actually, I don’t have much padding to lose. Even when I walk around at 190 I don’t have that much to lose. I can get down to 176 before performance begins to suffer. After that, I’m fighting my body’s natural “set point,” range and recovery, endurance and strength all begin to deteriorate.
I probably don’t carry more than 8% BF even at 190.
fa_jing, I was just addressing what he said his goal was. Which is why I commented on your suggestions. If he had said muscular endurance I may have agreed with you. But training as you suggested would not maintain top end strength, it would more than likely decrease it. And it takes longer to perform 300 of anything versus 1-6 reps. So that is why I said what I did. Just addressing the specific goal he stated.
Merryprankster, do you practice any of the Olympic lifts or their variations? If so, they are very effective for strength and explosiveness gains. Since you do them for only a few sets of low reps, they are not time consuming and won’t usually make you too sore to practice MA.
A good schedule would be something like this:
MONDAY
Clean and Jerk–2 or 3 sets of 3 light to warm up, then 3x3 heavy
Power Clean–2 or 3x3
WEDNESDAY
Bench Press–3x3-5. (Okay, it’s not an Oly lift. But we are manly men and MUST bench press!)
Straight Leg Deadlifts or Good Mornings-- 3x6-8
FRIDAY
Snatch–3 sets light to warm up, then 3x3 heavy
Ab work–your usual routine
Do not lift to failure, always leave a rep “in reserve”
This schedule will have you in and out of the gym quickly. If you’re pressed for time just do the Clean and Presses, Bench Press, and the Snatch on their respective days.
I’m very familiar with O-lifts. Used to be a shotputter and discus thrower.
I was just trying to see if somebody had any revelations on the subject
Hey does anyone do the military press (front) with a leg assist? That was a great one when I was lifiting weights.
Merry,
All strength with no mass gains things can be broken down to:
Heavy Weight (large % of 1RM); Low reps(1-5); Long rest(3 minutes)
Just follow those principles and you’ll be set.
Fa-Jing,
It’s called a push-press. Good exercise.
Ford, that’s what I figured.
Fa-Jing, the push press was/is one of my favorite exercises.