No style is complete. In fact, I find great value in having a few different people to learn BJJ from. Everyone has their specialty, their own perspective.
Part of Kung Fu’s problem is getting over this idea of the unbeatable master that knows it all. You want to be a great fighter, go spend time with as many great fighters as you can find and keep your eyes and ears open. Keep your mouth shut and just train.
[QUOTE=Ray Pina;875566]Make boxing gloves and headgear standard issue. Use these to work two-man cooperative boxing drills… bridging right to striking, or whatever your style’s specialty is. If these drills are not first nature to you, you should not be teaching.
Increase intensity of drills.
Remove headgear.
Remove gloves.
Put gear back on and fight (not spar) but with super fast stoppage by supervisor. Supervisor needs to be able to read what’s happening at point of engagement.
After 18 months of this training, everyone will become more more comfortable with the situation. Everyone will understand the dangers of certain positions, scenarios. They will respect them.
Now people can pair up to light spar. If egos make it too competitive now there is a forum: fighting.
Not saying this is how it has to be, but it has to be sort of like this. Don’t show it to them in a form. Show them the principle and how it works and make them work it.
This type of training will take care of the other big problem with Kung Fu… talking $hit. There’s never so much talking during what should be training as in Kwoons. Stories about the good old days. Stories of how this style is superior to that style AND WHY:rolleyes: Lots of talk.
If you train this way you’d be embarrassed by the talk. Because you now know what fighting is: a combination of technical skill, physical ability and will. Talk plays no roll. Shut up and train.[/QUOTE]
Good Post-
[QUOTE=Shaolin Wookie;875692]Dude, you guys are so programmed. Ground fighting is not a part of Wing Chun, but many kung fu schools that teach wing chun, shaolin, or anything else, have instituted groundfighting seminars and regular classes to get the basics of groundfighting and basic submissions. It doesn’t mean it’s wing chun, but you can learn the basics in groundfighting nonetheless in case you go to the ground…so you don’t lie there trying to poke out eyes and tear out throats Roadhouse style. The submissions are all wrestling based and BJJ based, or JJJ based. Submissions are old, and many teachers have seen them one way or another, so they’re not just making some BS up. So if someone goes to a wing chun school, or the Shaolin shchool I go to, and they learn groundfighting, it doesn’t mean it’s shaolin, but it is taught to complement it, so. …well…it is shaolin.
This forum is so goddam retarded sometimes.:rolleyes:[/QUOTE]
OMG DID YOU READ WHAT ROYAL DRAGON SAID AT ALL???
“I have been saying for some time that one shouldn’t have to look outside thier art to fill deficiencies.”
there
now is ground fighting found within the system called wing chun because one teacher teaches it? no.
is not having ground fighting taught in your system a deficency ? yes.
there fore what i said makes complete sense
“It doesn’t mean it’s wing chun” but i said “oh so wing chun teaches groundfighting:rolleyes:”
some people who teach wing chun also teach groundfighting but ITS NOT WING CHUN.
which means that wing chun is deficient (along with alot of other arts) in that it does not teach groundfighting.
so STFU:rolleyes:
pure groundfighting systems are deficient as well inasmuch as they don’t teach boxing or kicking aspects.
but then, by that measure, it is fair to say that all styles in and of themselves are deficient due to the fact that they don’t deal with all possible ranges of fighting.
This will change as we see the emergence of styles that have development methods in all ranges.
[QUOTE=David Jamieson;875766]pure groundfighting systems are deficient as well inasmuch as they don’t teach boxing or kicking aspects.
but then, by that measure, it is fair to say that all styles in and of themselves are deficient due to the fact that they don’t deal with all possible ranges of fighting.
This will change as we see the emergence of styles that have development methods in all ranges.[/QUOTE]
of coyurse pure groundfighting systems are deficient
thats the whole point of mixed martial arts
to mix it up and not let yourself become deficient
neither RD or SW seem to get that.
[QUOTE=golden arhat;875750]
now is ground fighting found within the system called wing chun because one teacher teaches it? no.
is not having ground fighting taught in your system a deficency ? yes.
there fore what i said makes complete sense
:[/QUOTE]
If you go to a wing chun school and a teacher teaches you groundfighting, then yes, it’s wing chun. Why? It says so on the sign outside. It’s his wing chun, and you’re in his world. Who gives a **** what it’s called on the larger scale. It could be BJJ or wrestling. And BJJ and wrestling are other things entirely if you trace them back a century. They don’t have a copyright on groundfighting. They stole it from Japanese Jujitsu and Judo and modified it, or from the greeks and the romans and the scythians and the teucerians and the trojans and whatnot. So BJJ isn’t BJJ. Do they make distinctions in nomenclature between those moves of japanese origin and the Gracies? Of course not. Why bother? LOL.
People hung up on names and dates and nomenclature…:rolleyes:
Besides. Everything’s shaolin, young grasshopper. My groundfighting is cooler than yours. Why? Because I can butterfly twist into an armbar.
so i guess windows and os10 are the same?
no they do things differently
wing chun with ground fighting is just that
“wing chun with ground fighting”
not wing chun
if you go up to someone and say what is wing chun they’l probably say a)a chinese restaurant or b) small straight line punches based system based on linear principles
no system is complete thats the point, thats why mma exists
MMA is incomplete. It doesn’t have the 5 animals, and I’m not allowed to steal the peach.
Here’s why your line of reasoning is retarded:
it does not allow for innovation. IF I study Wing Chun and I implement some ground work, and I use Wing Chun principles, it’s not wing chun by your standard. It’s just groundwork. It’s BJJ. It’s Wrestling. It’s MMA, this transgendered, transnational, nihilistic megalithic thing that encompasses all martial arts, much like Wal-Mart encompasses toilet brushes by offering all kinds of different shapes and sizes to fit your everyday needs. Specialists know they offer crappy goods manufactured in Korea. Thing is, if I study Wing Chun, and Wing Chun alone, it’s friggin’ Wing Chun. It’s not something else. If only for the fact the sign outside says “Wing Chun”. According to you, it loses its Wing Chuniness because other people are doing groundwork better, by your opinion, and as their primary purpose. Well, TKD kicks more than any other art, so Muay Thai is half Tae Kwon Do, and so is Karate, and all CMA’s, including Wing Chun. Oh, and MMA is Tae Kwon Do.
Every art has groundwork. It might not be on their cirriculum as teh main course, but they’ll have the same principles, because every art knows the armbar, and the wrist lock, and the triangle. They’re martial positions everybody outside of TKD know, and I’ll bet even they know. I took a free week at a Combat Hapkido school. It was free. I asked about groundwork. He was happy to show me Hapkido locks on the ground. It looked just like BJJ and JJJ and wrestling. Why? Well, if you use the same principles of locking and Chin-na on the ground, it looks like those arts. Why? Because that’s all they are.
If we apply your principle of nomenclature broadly, all religions are encompassed by Scientology, because Lord Xenu programmed us with religious iconography before he stuffed us into the volcano and shoved a nuke up our…well, probably your…ass.
The main reason you’re wrong: Dude, you’re like 16.
The reason you know you’re wrong: I’m John Takeshi, and I said so, beeyotch.
Wing chun is based on Bong Sau, Tan Sau and Fuk Sau… all three positions have extended arms. That will get your finished on the ground quick fast.
I think it’s awesome that each style has its specialty. Pick up what you want.
Don’t use hammer thinking for a screw. Don’t use a computer when you need a car,
Nothing wrong with saying Wing Chun provides me with what I need to feel safe standing, but let me go to an expert to learn some solid ground principles.
And even then, that game is constantly evolving. Good guys won’t get caught in straight Kamoras or Americans. They’ve seen it thousands of times. You evolve the set up.
How did this become another discussion about MMA?
Seriously- I was hoping people had ideas on how to train kung fu to make it work more consistently in real-life / stressful situations.
I like ground fighting, but quite frankly, - well - it’s as close to g@y as you can get with your clothes on.
Maybe I’m naive, but I think kung fu still has the potential to be the schiznit again. Whether it’s a mindset, poor methodology, too many techniques, too much ritual, whatever it is, I think it can be corrected- but how?
[QUOTE=Shaolin Wookie;875818]
4. The main reason you’re wrong: Dude, you’re like 16.[/QUOTE] and that makes a difference why ?
[QUOTE=Shaolin Wookie;875818]
5. The reason you know you’re wrong: I’m John Takeshi, and I said so, beeyotch.[/QUOTE]
HE ADMITS IT
going in my sig
Same ole Sh!t, Different Thread
Jesus Christ will people just leave it alone already? You have your way of training and i have mine. MMA, Kung fu, Karate, JKD, TKD, Aikido, Shaolin whatever, WHATEVER.
People just gotta stop b!tchin about Kung fu and MMA. We have read, seen and heard just about every possible argument for and against Kung fu’s effectiveness and the same with MMA’s effectiveness. The designations of both seem to be the same yet they train differently and have a different mindset with different outcomes etc etc.
Kung-Fu is what it is and So is MMA. Kung-Fu’ers and MMA’ers need to pull the stick OUT of their @sses and stop fukin with each other.
What i am wondering is who really started all this cr@p between the two factions(if you can really call them factions) Was it the Kung-Fu’ers and their "my art is better than your art or forms better than your forms? I can defeat any Man BS.? Was it the MMA’ers and their “Kung fu is cr@p and whatever else the bullshido crowd sh!ts out on a daily basis?” im thinking its a tie between the two but ENOUGH ALREADY AND WHO CARES WHO STARTED WHAT?
The whole “Cant we just all get along” diatribe is redundant i know but I REALLY FEEL WE NEED TO ACTUALLY PUT THIS WISDOM TO ITS FULLEST EXTENT.
Both sides of the fence need to put in their place and weed out the little douchewads who think they are the know all to be all best fighters and who constantly sling sh!t at one another. Its the TEACHER’s responsability to TEACH their students a certain amount of respect for any and all things out in the world, and its the STUDENT’s responsability to have enough common god d@mn sense to follow it.
STFU already,Peace, TWS
Having more Faith?
It’s most likely is that we’ve lost faith in Kung Fu’s effectiveness as to why that in combat situations the kung fu we practice looks like poor man’s kickboxing. The only way that I can see for bringing faith back into it is to practice more and to find good sparring partners and trying to use proper kung fu in a “learning” fight.
I also see too much “one-handed fighting”. This is where a person over relies on their strong side- boxers fight weak side forward because it allows for more power and combinations.
I think kung-fu is and can be the bomb- the basics of ground fighting has to be learned- but not to the dry humping extent of BJJ or submission wrestling.
[QUOTE=MightyB;875824]
I like ground fighting, but quite frankly, - well - it’s as close to g@y as you can get with your clothes on.[/QUOTE]
You should go take a BJJ class. I bet you find you’ll like it for all the reasons you like Kung Fu. In fact, you’ll be able to express your Kung Fu concepts (strong structure, sticking, flowing) in free play your first day without having to worry about getting punched or kicked. But you’ll have to work them.
You’ll probably have a lot of fun too.
[QUOTE=MightyB;875824]Maybe I’m naive, but I think kung fu still has the potential to be the schiznit again. Whether it’s a mindset, poor methodology, too many techniques, too much ritual, whatever it is, I think it can be corrected- but how?[/QUOTE]
Don’t let anyone here make you feel like your style doesn’t have enough. If you have kicking and punching and a solid blocking scheme, that you just have to train as hard as you want to be competitive with your peers.
[QUOTE=MightyB;875824]
I like ground fighting, but quite frankly, - well - it’s as close to g@y as you can get with your clothes on.[/quOTE]
Personally, I think practicing kung fu but getting owned by high school wrestlers is much more g@y.
[QUOTE=MasterKiller;875850]Personally, I think practicing kung fu but getting owned by high school wrestlers is much more g@y.[/QUOTE] Singlets make me laugh…
I’ve been cross training in Judo for quite some time and hold my own quite well with BJJ’ers and submission wrestlers- and I still find newaza a little g@y. I just happen to prefer using the submission wrestler’s modified knee on belly for self defense over the standard hold downs from judo and jiu-jitsu.
Hey- if you guys like ride another man’s back with your grapes in- all the best to ya’- it’s just not my thing.
now thats some funny shiznit
[QUOTE=MightyB;875857]Singlets make me laugh…
I’ve been cross training in Judo for quite some time and hold my own quite well with BJJ’ers and submission wrestlers-[/QUOTE]
I find it hard to believe that someone who dislikes grappling (usually an indicator that not enough time is spent working it) can hold their own against even decent BJJers. Are you tapping purple belts? Brown belts?
[QUOTE=MightyB;875824]Seriously- I was hoping people had ideas on how to train kung fu to make it work more consistently in real-life / stressful situations.
…whatever it is, I think it can be corrected- but how?[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Mr Punch;875676]basics kiss resistance resistance resistance repeat ad infinitum.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Ray Pina;875566]Make boxing gloves and headgear standard issue.
… Shut up and train.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Ray Pina;875843]You should go take a BJJ class…[/QUOTE]
To which you can add ‘Animal Day’ and ‘Dog Bros’ to your real-life/stressful situation questions.
Er. End of thread?
!
