Whoa… I never suggested removing stances or weight-bearing exercises. I do both every day.
Plyometrics?
Anyone ever heard of tan tui?
I don’t squat. I don’t have a rack and don’t have money to go to a gym. But doing forms, with so many sinking-rising movements, really trains my explosiveness I think. Depends on what style you do I guess.
I do deadlifts with the bar real low though (using a lot of small plates). So I kinda get a squat in there too.
shaolin knight,
I dunno about this, but I heard that if you’re not using 45’s on deadlifts, you should put the bar on a stand or something so that it stops at the level it would be at were you using 45 lb plates. This prevents you from bending over too far. Pavel says this in one of his books.
Did I explain it well?
Iron
fitting in gym work with school, study and kung fu has been tough, so ive had limited time to workout, and being a teenage male, i decided to just go for upperbody strength, with some occasional squats in there.
as of yesterday, ive decided that once a week im going to do a heavy legs workout… does anyone have a good program that takes maybe half an hour to 45 minutes?
im guessing that squats are important for quads… whats good for hamstrings and calves? i was planning to pick maybe 3 out of these - squats, lunges, and those two machine things - where u lie on your stomach and work hamstrings and calves, and the quad raise thing (sorry i dont know the names)
out of those 4, which should I do?
thanks.
oh, and what about lunges and calf raises?
lol.
ged, i think the “quad raise thing” you’re talking about is the leg extension (where you sit in a chair and then straighten out your legs, right?) I would say, don’t use it. While some people feel that it helps bring out defintion in the quads, it really won’t add mass or strength. Squats for quads. Some people like deadlifts for hamstrings. Personally I don’t feel it at all in my hams when I DL. Do laying hamstring curl for hamstrings. Squats also supposedly work hamstrings, but again, I really don’t feel it.
One more thing, being a teenage male, DON’T neglect your lower body. Trust me. The first 10-12 months I lifted I didn’t do legs, and I’m regretting it now as my legs suck compared with my upperbody. Well, being an ectomorph my legs have always been naturally small and weak. But you absolutely do NOT want to look unbalanced (big upper body skinny legs).
About that ectomorph comment I just made, I swear that fat people have strong legs. Seriously. One of my clients last semester was pretty large (not muscular) and his legs untrained were stronger than a lot of people who have been working out for a long time. It’s crazy. I guess it’s a combination of two things:
- carrying around all that weight, all day.
- genetically being able to add muscle easier.
That, and fat people have big calves. Have you guys noticed that? Even if a fat guy diets down, his calves are still huge. Mine are stubborn to grow!
Wow, I just got off topic.
Iron
Ironfist, are you sure that Pavel isn’t talking about straight legged deads? because in that exercise, you definately can endanger your back by rounding your back from bending over too far. (what’s worse, I seen people to straight legged deads with a rounded back all the way through the entire rep).
Oh yeah, I heard leg extensions increases shear forces on the knee so it’s bad for your knees also. I think calves are genetic and how you walk.
I think that for internal martial artists though, you HAVE to do stance training. I think it’s very crucial to do them. For external martial artists, I think weight training are better with exercises like squats, deads, clean and jerks, snatches, and so forth. But this is just my opinion.
Kumkuat - that’s definitely true.
damn. i just read sevenstars comment about squatting weights.
i feel weak now 
lol. but i suppose if i wasnt weak, i wouldnt have to goto the gym.
weird logic, but it works for me
anyway
im the same bodytype as you ironfist i think, im about 6 foot 1 in your outdated american measurements, and before i did weights i was about 65kg - whats that, 140 pounds?
after about a year of mainly upperbody work, and eating a lot, im 75 kg, so im happy with that, but like u said, im starting to realise that big upperbody and small legs is not cool unless i wear trousers my whole life.
so, on the info u gave me so far,
ill do 3 sets of squats, then (maybe) one set of leg raises just to goto exhaustion.
then 3 sets of hamstring curls, (by the way, how far are u meant to curl on these? all the way?)
then if ive got time, 3 sets of deadlifts.
after a few months, ill swap to lunges, calf raises, deadlifts and squats.
thanks for your help ironfist.
This reply is somewhat delayed…
I really didnt mention HOW a well conditioned leg helps with leg kicks. Yet you assume I mean to flex my leg as the kick comes in? Dont be silly. Density is what it is. Density. It helps take blows. Flexed or unflexed. Can you find a fault with physics?
p.s. plus the debate was horse stance in contrast to lifting weights and I was simply listing the benefits of each, as I saw them. When the discussion comes up about whats the best method for building power then let me know.
“If you and I agree all the time, then one of us is unnecessary.”
ged,
don’t try DL’s and squats on the same day. DL’s at the end of the workout, as you suggested, is especially a bad idea. Your body would be too fatigued and you’d have a high risk of hurting yourself. Maybe alternate Squats one workout and Deads the next.
As for hamstring curls, as far as you can go, that’s how far you should move it. Chances are you won’t be hitting your butt with the pad, but you want to go back as far as you can go comfortably.
Iron
got it
thanks
Ironfist, I don’t think Pavel says using something to higher the bar is a must. Look at duck deadlifts (I think that’s what they are called, you have PTP right?) He says you can also use a lot of small plates. Of course, you need a lot of hamstring flexibility and strength to do this, so it’s not for most people. To the guy worried about his legs, don’t do leg curls. Try these kind of deadlifts. You will get sore at first in your hamstrings. You must thrust your hips forward as opposed to using your back. You do use your back, but don’t think of it that way or you will force the load onto your spinal erectors. Ouch! Keep your head up. Back bent back a little. Don’t slouch. If you have to slouch, you’re not flexible enough for these.